Last year, after finals, I decided to take a break and attend the weekly Couchsurfing meetup in New York City. Though I was an active traveler before, Couchsurfing in Europe and Asia and hosting and organizing events in San Francisco, here, in New York, school and roommates kept me less involved than before.
Before the event, I joined some surfers for dinner. Immediately, I noticed this was unlike any other Couchsurfing meetup I’d ever been to. One girl had never used the site as a guest or host, only to meet people to go drinking with. The guys had barely traveled, weren’t interested in talking with me, and didn’t actively host in New York. None of them seemed like real Couchsurfers.
At the meetup, it got even more strange. Upstairs, in the dark, loud, and unfriendly room, was a group of nearly two dozen guys, all American, and a single girl, surrounded by guys. No one came up to welcome us, and the atmosphere felt stifling.
“Man, where are all the girls?” said one of my dinner mates.
I left only 20 minutes later. That didn’t feel like the Couchsurfing spirit, not at all. Little did I realize that site which had changed my life, had itself changed for the worse.
Couchsurfing trip to Sequoia National Park, 2008
Couchsurfing has gone from a modest start as an attempt by a traveler to find a free place to stay in Iceland, to become the largest travel social network online. It now boasts five million members, and the growth shows no signs of stopping. For six years, I’ve been a member of Couchsurfing. I’ve met several of my best friends through the site, and found it to be an epitomization of the true spirit of traveling.
That things change is a central facet of Buddhist teaching. Couchsurfing is no different. With growth comes challenges. Natural spread through word of mouth has become media-driven growth.
With that, I no longer feel I can recommend a traveler to use Couchsurfing, and no longer plan to use it much myself. Here is why.
More Members, Less Community
The first meetup I organized was in back in April of 2008, a few months after moving to San Francisco. A potluck at a park.
Nearly 50 people came from all around the San Francisco Bay Area; experienced surfers, newbies, recent high school grads and retired professors. Locals and travelers from all around the world intermixed, and there were even children, playing on the rare, beautiful San Francisco spring day. It was what I always imagined – an open community of all ages. We’d done a potluck to make it as open to as many people as possible, even set up carpooling so that more people could come. Everyone brought what they could, and there was more than enough food to go around.
I still remember how amazing it felt that day, to be around other like-minded Couchsurfers, people mixing freely, nearly everyone having come on their own. Several of the people I met that day remain my friends, and two ended up getting married. We truly felt we were part of something.
Today, and I’ve tried, but events like those of 2008 and 2009 in San Francisco seem like the fading glory of the past.
There are still good people on Couchsurfing. Just as there are good people anywhere. But the sad part is, the community that was once so powerful has lost its focus. My new home, San Diego, tells that story as well as anyplace else.
Four years ago, there was a vibrant community, active, friendly, and with an incredible array of events taking place. Art gatherings, bonfires, a weekly meetup at a bar, cafe gatherings, potlucks, mimicking and exceeding that of San Francisco.
Now, San Diego is quiet, a weekly bar meetup the only regular activity, the message board sparse, my attempts to organize events getting little response. Any men who post on the boards get no responses, while any girl, not surprisingly, get plenty. In San Francisco, the weekly meetup I started has disappeared, the potlucks, which went on for nearly three years unabated, long forgotten. Despite millions more members, the community seems to have disappeared.
Gender and Couchsurfing
Since its early days, Couchsurfing has had a gender imbalance, with more male members then females one. But it was not really an issue then, and more a reflection on the fact that men, unfortunately, have more freedom to travel then women.
Despite that, my first host back in 2006, when I was living with two other men in Granada, Spain, was a solo traveling female from Australia. Initially, I was shocked. Why would a girl want to stay with three single men, with a brand new profile, and no references? So I asked her.
“Couchsurfing, to me, is safer than hostels. Even if you have no references, at least I know who you are through your profile, versus in a hostel, I could be sharing a room with mentally-insane strangers.”
It made perfect sense. The thought of taking advantage of a guest, male or female, was unthinkable. Just as I knew a guest would never take advantage of our trust and steal anything – which, to this day, has never happened. It is that trust that Couchsurfing is based on, and it was enlightening. The potential of humanity to share and grow. It fulfilled a need within me, to connect with people and share.
That was the point of travel.
Today, would anyone stay with three men who had an empty profile? The sad truth is, I would tell a girl never to do that, because it would be too risky.
Those first three years, I never heard of a single bad experience – everything was positive, evidence of humanity’s good. Then, it began to change. Slowly, more negative stories began to pop up – aggressive hosts, dirty places, uncomfortable situations. Now, its a 180 degree shift. Girls tell me about how when they arrive in a city, they often get random messages from local males, often with suggestive, flirty content. It is not uncommon to see hosts in major cities whose entire wall of references is only girls. According to an ambassador in New York City, girls posting on the message board in that city can get 50 message from males, most of whom have empty or near empty profiles.
It was those people I saw the so-called Couchsurfing meetup in New York. The girls they’d sent those messages too probably had been too scared to come.
The new open couch request feature demonstrates the problem clearly. It is a place where references matter little. I’ve been shocked to see men with 40+ references still seeking a host, while girls with no friends, no references, and bare-bones profiles getting 3+ invites.
Is that the Couchsurfing spirit?
For Profit Couchsurfing
Why has Couchsurfing become so gendered? Why is the community weak? I think the blame lies in an organization that has decided to focus on growth over building a community.
The site went for-profit last year, and now, following time-honored corporate practices, is focused solely on growth. Membership growth. Quantity over quality. The more members they have, the more valuable the site becomes to potential advertisers, or, as some rumors have it, to potential buyers.
Lost beneath this frenzy of numbers are the disappearing quality interactions, those which can’t be quantified. In my first four years of hosting surfers, I only once had a surfer flake on me. In the past two years, its happened several times. Just a few weeks ago, in Singapore, I had a host flake on me for the first time, the day I arrived, forcing me to stay in a hostel. Years ago, this would have shocked me. But now, it was almost expected. The trust on the site has diminished. A contradiction; more members, less community, less positive experiences.
I used to say that Couchsurfing was Globalization done right, where ideas and exchange mattered more than money or status. When you met someone who said they were a Couchsurfer, it meant they had a different viewpoint on life, that they knew how to share, and were culturally open-minded.
Back in the day, we used to test travelers to see if they were worthy of Couchsurfing. I remember meeting a friendly Malaysian in Bulgaria, and shared a train ride with him. Couchsurfing was so new back then, that there were actually only a handful of hosts in Bulgaria, so Noel had never heard of it. But I felt an innate openness, and warmth, within him, so I told him about Couchsurfing. He joined, and quickly became an active user, and later, an Ambassador, in the site’s true early spirit. That seemed like natural, organic growth, spread through word of mouth, introduced by people who shared the same ideals. If you were meant to be a Couchsurfer, you would find it. If not, it would remain apart, a subculture in a world of diversity. With time, society would be ready.
Unfortunately, we live in a society obsessed with growth, and the Couchsurfing management team fell into this same trap. The millionth member joined in 2009. Now, there are five million users, mass media coverage, and even mentions in Lonely Planet. Was it inevitable? Probably. Could it have been done in a way that respected the values that spurred Couchsurfing’s initial organic growth. Definitely.
Several of the members I met four, five, or six years ago, as a surfer in Europe or at my potlucks, barely use the site anymore. Some have stopped hosting due to bad experiences, others find the site no longer has the values its once did. It strikes me as incredibly sad. Couchsurfing has lost its base, and is now dependent on only one thing, growth, new membership, at any cost.
There is no turning back once you make a deal with the financial devil.
I loved Couchsurfing because I felt it was a true social network that created positive interactions and make the world a better place. I still believe in that dream, that we can turn the internet into the amazing, transnational, cultural tool for social change. Unfortunately, Couchsurfing is no longer that platform, and may no longer even a good site for travelers anymore, especially women. Will another site, such as the open-source, community run BeWelcome? I hope so. The people who made Couchsurfing great are still there, waiting for the opportunity to transform travel and the world once again.
Other Critiques
Mechanical Brain – A Sad end to a Good Idea
Quirky Travel Guy – Couchsurfing Backlash
Totally agree! The CS San Francisco meetups have become quite sparse, to say the least.
Nithin
I agree with everything you wrote it and Im sure there are tons of people that also agree with you. I joined CS in 2005 and I had hilarious good time meeting people, hosting amazing travelers, sharing experiences, making good friends and meeting enthusiastic people. I have done propaganda of CS to all my travel passionate friends. I use to say that being part of the CS community it was a smth that can enriched you for a life, but unfortunately all this felt apart last year when CS start to be a profitable company. I think now the mistake its done and its irreversible. They could have been much more careful and less greedy. Every company wants to make money, but there are many ways of doing it. And selling what is more precious (ur community) it has been shown that is not worth it, isnt? I use to live in Europe and explain to all my friends how proud I was for being part of this community. Nowadays I live in Buenos Aires and all of my (ex) CS friends arent even login any more on the website.
colleeniebean Tell your boss and ur colleagues that maybe its to late to repair the damage. CS has lost faith between their community. And I say all this with much sadness. Whats the point to make CS looks like FaceBook? Does everybody thinks thats the only business that works at the internet and that everybody has to follow?
Nevertheless, I hope we can find another website where we (real travelers with good spirit) can keep sharing good time with other real travelers!!
Do u think bewelcome is a good alternative. It is pretty small and tries to be more p.ersonal
Hi Nithin Coca
Thanks for your words and the music. I
am so touch with your sincerely writing and honest sharing about the
spirit of CS and how it have started, developed and changed by time. It gave me
the answer for my wondering and considering about CS and I am curious how BW
will go for keeping the old school time social community to network the
international friendship and the human trusty among our small world.
Regarding to my job as a teacher, I have
had host some exchange students. I got impress I first time heard about CS was
from one of the exchange students who I host last year. It reminded me the craziest
thing I have done while 3 classmates of mine and me, we have had went through out
Taiwan by hitchhiking. Don’t laugh; it was quite unusual at the old time
especially for Asia students.
After I signed in as a member of CS in May
2012, I quickly received a warm welcome message from San Francisco by Jon (
Hikecrazy). I thought he is the team leader of CS. I reply his kindness and I
wrote him 10 times for finding out how I can deal with my first CS guest who
was missing after I accepted and expected his coming. My first host experience was
a little pity but I got nice advances from a few active and experienced members.
Later, I got to know Nans, an active CS, who contracted me and I helped him to
settle in Tainan. We become friends. He is happy with his house, job, and hang
up with CS friends and local people in Tainan now.
When I told Nans about my summer trip in north
Europe, he recommended me “Try BW or CS, you will get information and suggestions
and you may luckily meet up nice local host.” So, I tried and am working hard to go through searching
the places, reading the articles and discussion were posted, and the profiles
of members. I learned a lot stories from other about their travel experiences
and their interesting in life recently. Be honest, the more I read, the more
question came up my head. I guess that is why BW is running after CS and I am
writing you here.
I totally agree with your point view and
you exactly pointed out the main meaning/ spirit of a communicative social
network for who like to travel around to see/learn the different cultures from
different groups by listening/ sharing the life experience together and make
this small world without distance between hearts to hearts. That is what I
expect and look forward to have the great advance/ friendship from CS or BW.
Unlucky, the CS changed their policy beside the website crashed my internet
connection whenever I sign in so I did not check in often but I still received
some request which mostly are from young college students who is looking for
one night stay at the last minute or a few business invitation from who own a
home-stay business. I decided to take the second try with BW since I heard from
Nans. Well, I still try to host CS who takes serious for himself or herself to
write me a personal message. I wish my 3 guests and I will have good time and
good experience in March and April.
However, I am working on searching the potential
host while I travel in Europe this summer. Hopefully, I have the lucky chance
to get the great experience as you had/ have. ^_^
Thanks for your reading and I wish all the
best to you and to everyone who also has the passion with others in life.
Warm greeting from Taiwan to you, Nithin
^__^
Li-Chun
Wow, am I glad I got to meet you before you made this decision. You’re right though – in the past year that I’ve been a member I’ve noticed changes in the user demographic and atmosphere of the whole website. I’ve met and surfed with guys where I didn’t feel secure, and that really affects the entire travel experience in a negative way. Yet, I can’t leave negative experiences because they were generally good hosts – just not necessarily having the right motives.
In fact, I recently got an offensive message from a male Verified member. Confused, I checked his profile to see plenty of positive references from girls, and zero references from guys. So it goes both ways as well – there are women out there who are on CS just to have a good time. I think some street smarts go a long way in navigating the different types of members there today, but it shows that Verification is absolutely no indicator of trustworthiness – just a (terrible) way for the organization to make some money.
There are definitely better business models out there if CS would just do more research – so many startups to learn from. I understand their need to be profitable, but going mainstream, as you pointed out so well, will eventually cause its downfall.
Even though bewelcome is “open source” (on an outdate platform with have inactive developer) there are major management problems and they have not come close to what CS has/had achieved http://computerhelperzz.blogspot.in/2013/01/bewelcome-and-transparency.html
hm..so many issues to be discuss and to think about from the different views by time
PeriSosa I’m all ears when someone has some critical thought but that blog post you’re linking to (in which I’m mentioned) doesn’t make any sense.
BeWelcome is a very transparent organization. And a bunch of dedicated programmers are working hard to rewrite everything from scratch. Others are working on fixing issues on the current platform.
I was tech team leader for couchsurfing, trying to open it up, and BW is a lot better in many regards than what CS was in 2007. For one, there’s not a small clique of people calling the shots behind the curtain.
So please stop complaining and spreading nonsense.
PeriSosa I’m all ears when someone has some critical thought but that blog post you’re linking to (in which I’m mentioned) doesn’t make any sense.
BeWelcome is a very transparent organization. And a bunch of dedicated programmers are working hard to rewrite everything from scratch. Others are working on fixing issues on the current platform.
I was tech team leader for couchsurfing, trying to open it up, and BW is a lot better in many regards than what CS was in 2007. For one, there’s not a small clique of people calling the shots behind the curtain.
So please stop complaining and spreading nonsense.
PeriSosa I’m all ears when someone has some critical thought but that blog post you’re linking to (in which I’m mentioned) doesn’t make any sense.
BeWelcome is a very transparent organization. And a bunch of dedicated programmers are working hard to rewrite everything from scratch. Others are working on fixing issues on the current platform.
I was tech team leader for couchsurfing, trying to open it up, and BW is a lot better in many regards than what CS was in 2007. For one, there’s not a small clique of people calling the shots behind the curtain.
So please stop complaining and spreading nonsense.
guaka how can you help,when you have not been able to make a single change on bewelcome for the past 5 years ? ie no change to drupal 3-4 years of discussion, no change in forums . 90% members inactive?
There are zero dedicated full time developer working on bewelcome (or are there?)
“BeWelcome is a very transparent organization” – Guaka
I will believe you only when all the old forums are online http://trac.bewelcome.org/ticket/1514 and all the bevolunteer forum threads.
http://blogs.bevolunteer.org/(not working)
[why these is very important and needs to be on-line – to transparently show the new users how bewelcome,bevolunteer decision making works.]
“there’s not a small clique of people calling the shots behind the curtain.” – guaka
The BOD voting structure makes them a clique . Most of them (Present,ex BOD) are a clique of ex hospitality ,opencouchsurfing.org guys . Most could not make a single change in the past 5 years (or have you ?)
bewelcome is complex structure and newbies get fooled by believing that bewelcome is one organisation .
bewelcome>bevolunteer>BOD /GA
http://www.bewelcome.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors
http://www.bewelcome.org/wiki/Statutes
http://www.bewelcome.org/wiki/BeVolunteer_concept
http://www.bewelcome.org/wiki/History_of_BeVolunteer
Couldn’t have said it better myself, Nithin. I’ve been a member of CS since late 2005 and can’t believe how rapidly in the past 18 months the site has spiralled away from the culture and community that was it’s backbone. I was much like you in my local community: Ambassador, weekly meet organizer, event organizer, community cheerleader, even an onsite volunteer for CS in 2009, and paid contractor for a year (2010-2011). I gave countless hours of my life to CouchSurfing and hosted hundreds of CSers. Now I barely log into the site because having to wade through the crap (couch requests on place pages/in groups; poorly written or copy paste couch requests sent to my inbox because my couch status is set to NO) is too frustrating. I think what stings the most about the way the whole thing is being run into the ground now is that there are thousands of CS members just like you and I, people with excellent insight and ideas about how to save our beloved community, trying to get our voices heard but no one seems to be listening anymore. Why? Our ideas aren’t bringing revenue. You know, they could have simply added some targeted advertising, explained that the site needed to make money in order to pay people to keep its interface fresh and up to date, add cool features, and give us the things that we, the community, kept asking for (a more functional mobile app would have been awesome)… but no. I honestly don’t get it.
Safety issues are a major concern to me now, too. The “Open Couch Requests” feature, while an excellent resource if used wisely, leaves many people vulnerable in my opinion. I’ve browsed the surfers looking for hosts on occasion and noticed, like you mentioned, that pretty young girls are getting the bulk of offers regardless of if their profiles have any content at all (aside from their profile photo). This tells me that the whole “CS is not a dating site” ethos (or hook-up site, or whatever) is being totally lost on the new userbase. All of a sudden it IS a site where you’re almost guaranteed to hook up with someone. Sadly I know of a couple cases in my own community where the guys (a little older – in their 30’s) use it to meet younger foreign girls for sex. It’s sickening. And considering how out of the loop I have been for the past year or so, saying I personally know of a couple cases means there has to be WAY more than I am aware of… and that is only in my city.
I can only hope, and hope in vain it seems, that something will be done to save this sinking ship we’re on before we all hit the ocean floor. For now I’ve joined http://www.bewelcome.org/ and will host through there as it seems the member base is largely made up of those of us who truly get what is meant by Hospitality Exchange, and therefore I can again look forward to sharing ideas & time with the next person who will sleep on my couch.
Peace to you, Nithin. Thanks for your post.
Couldn’t have said it better myself, Nithin. I’ve been a member of CS since late 2005 and can’t believe how rapidly in the past 18 months the site has spiralled away from the culture and community that was it’s backbone. I was much like you in my local community: Ambassador, weekly meet organizer, event organizer, community cheerleader, even an onsite volunteer for CS in 2009, and paid contractor for a year (2010-2011). I gave countless hours of my life to CouchSurfing and hosted hundreds of CSers. Now I barely log into the site because having to wade through the crap (couch requests on place pages/in groups; poorly written or copy paste couch requests sent to my inbox because my couch status is set to NO) is too frustrating. I think what stings the most about the way the whole thing is being run into the ground now is that there are thousands of CS members just like you and I, people with excellent insight and ideas about how to save our beloved community, trying to get our voices heard but no one seems to be listening anymore. Why? Our ideas aren’t bringing revenue. You know, they could have simply added some targeted advertising, explained that the site needed to make money in order to pay people to keep its interface fresh and up to date, add cool features, and give us the things that we, the community, kept asking for (a more functional mobile app would have been awesome)… but no. I honestly don’t get it.
Safety issues are a major concern to me now, too. The “Open Couch Requests” feature, while an excellent resource if used wisely, leaves many people vulnerable in my opinion. I’ve browsed the surfers looking for hosts on occasion and noticed, like you mentioned, that pretty young girls are getting the bulk of offers regardless of if their profiles have any content at all (aside from their profile photo). This tells me that the whole “CS is not a dating site” ethos (or hook-up site, or whatever) is being totally lost on the new userbase. All of a sudden it IS a site where you’re almost guaranteed to hook up with someone. Sadly I know of a couple cases in my own community where the guys (a little older – in their 30’s) use it to meet younger foreign girls for sex. It’s sickening. And considering how out of the loop I have been for the past year or so, saying I personally know of a couple cases means there has to be WAY more than I am aware of… and that is only in my city.
I can only hope, and hope in vain it seems, that something will be done to save this sinking ship we’re on before we all hit the ocean floor. For now I’ve joined http://www.bewelcome.org/ and will host through there as it seems the member base is largely made up of those of us who truly get what is meant by Hospitality Exchange, and therefore I can again look forward to sharing ideas & time with the next person who will sleep on my couch.
Peace to you, Nithin. Thanks for your post.
I have been reading about C$ during the last weeks and you couldn’t have choosen better words to say what I feel about the old CS. Well done! And thank you for your article!
Hey Nitin, we miss you here in SF. And hi Airyn, if you’re reading the comments, I miss you too. 🙂
Nitin, I am so sad reading your post, and I have to say, with all love, that you are wrong in your analysis and assumptions about the growth of Couchsurfing. Couchsurfing does not advertise or pursue new members in any way. We have no marketing department, and, as I handle media inquiries, I can tell you that we are not proactively courting media coverage. There have been articles written, but they were not something we sought out, nor do we tell people to tell everyone they know. The growth has been 100 percent organic.
That being said, there are changes, as you said, that are inevitable with this amount of growth in membership. Since we cannot, and don’t want to stop people from joining CS, we have to build the system that can facilitate them having the same awesome experiences that Couchsurfers have always given each other. We are in the process of improving the site to deal with the issues arising out of the larger membership, and meanwhile the amazing experiences are still happening all over the world. Give it time. It’s just going to take a while longer for us to get it right. It is discouraging to long-time users right now, because they see the place pages, and assume that CS is not planning to educate new users about how the system works, and the etiquette and generosity of exchange that is fundamental to being a couchsurfer, but we are. There are still many of us at CSHQ who have been members of the community for years, and understand what the experiences have been, and are dedicated to making sure that we maintain the specialness of our community. There is much more care and thought going into the evolution of Couchsurfing than you know. From the executive level on down. I am confident that time will show how much, and that those people who keep participating will continue to meet amazing people and have amazing experiences with each other. I hope you will, Nitin. You are one of the people that represents what a couchsurfer truly is.
colleeniebean besides the fact that this doesn’t even address the majority of my post (and yes, CS is all about numbers today – that’s obvious, why do you guys keep mentioning 5 million over and over?) you misspelled my name 3 times yet try to act like you know me?
As someone who worked in non-profit PR for years, this is not a good attempt at earning any cred from us old timers. Strikes me as decidedly…corporate.
excinit colleeniebean Nice comeback, Nitin!
AnnFoo I hope this is not a “smackdown…”
excinit I was not trying to act like anything. The fact that I misspelled your name (for which I apologize) has nothing to do with the fact that I met and liked you, and thought that you were an asset to the CS community in SF. I am not attempting to earn credit with anyone. I’m a couchsurfer who still believes in CS, as I did when I joined in 2006. I though I’d lend my perspective to a few of the points in this opinion-piece in hopes that you might reconsider what you seem to think is a lost cause. As I am still participating in the CS community, and happily hosting, surfing, planning and attending events, I can tell you that the community still thrives and yields the same awesome experiences.
(adding AnnFoo) When CS reached 10,000 members, there was a movement to close membership. None of us would have made that cut. But CS chose not to limit membership, only to continue to let word of mouth spread about CS. How about creating the opportunity for a bunch of smaller communities within a global community? Nithin, how would you have it ” have been done in a way that respected the values that spurred Couchsurfing’s initial organic growth”? How do you stop word of mouth about CS? This community can facilitate a much more powerful change with more people having positive, profound experiences with each other.
I’ve sounded like a spokesperson for CS since the day I surfed my first couch, because it’s freaking awesome! I still see the value in it and I’m sad that you don’t. All that being said, Nithin, I am glad that you cared enough to write about what you’ve observed, as it gives CSHQ an opportunity to grow in the right direction. People here care and are listening. Some things just take time to make their way into the technology and the community. I also hope you’ll come back around to CS one day.
colleeniebeanexcinit
“When CS reached 10,000 members, there was a movement to close membership. None of us would have made that cut.”
You’re speaking for yourself and your group. Almost every CS ambassodor I know was in favour of closing down memberships of users who were innactive for more than a year. This makes perfect sense – Why keep a profile open for people who don’t use it? The answer is simple but not honourable – CS just wanted to hit the million members target.
Word of mouth is one thing. Advertising is another. the day that CS started to advertise itself in lonely planet and easy jet magazine was the beginnng of the end, in my opinion. It doesn’t matter if you don’t pay for the advertising, the ethic is still the same: you are introducing a mainstream population to a very specific idea with a very specific agenda. So of course the idea/agenda got watered down with the introduction of a mainstream population. If more care had been taken to think about WHERE to advertise and grow the site (I think freecycle.org would have been a good one), instead of just chasing the numbers, you might have had a better chance of growing the site with people who would respect the original ideals of CS.
one simple step CS can take – stop advertising, over and over again, the # of members you have, the # of “experiences” because that is the exact problem. Why don’t you remove profiles that are outdated? At least 1/4 of my friends list hasn’t logged on in over a year.
And secondly – CS should have put in place a democratic, non-profit structure from the beginning. that isn’t ur fault. But hiring an outside CEO with no input from the community was a terrible idea. Centralizing and changing the group system and taking away power for local communities was also a huge mistake that no one at CS has yet apologized for
If you really want to begin listening to the community – how about this – put every position up for hire, ask for community input on the direction of the site, have people explain to the community why they want to be hired, and allow active engagement in determining who to hire. Make the organization international – the vast majority of CS members are not in the US – and be sure to have the board resemble the membership.
Radical – yes. but at this point, if you want to survive, you need to do something radical.
colleeniebean you say you cannot and do not want to stop people from joining. Why? Why does the community have to grow? That’s only desireable in a capitalist model if you want to increase revenue. Most community studies point to the fact that smaller communities are more cohesive.
I used to think it was elitist of me to think that CS should only be spread by word of mouth, to like minded souls. But now, I think that it the RESPONSIBLE thing to do. Because it is important to protect the interests of your community members before expanding that community.
I had a mostly good 2 and a half year run at Couchsurfing, meeting some fantastic people along the way. But now… ugh! In March 2013, I had a new host send me an acceptance right away, then she grilled me with an endless barrage of questions, then cancelled at the last minute. Much worse than this, I had a host in Marin County, “Sanfranman,” who turned out to be severely brain-damaged and (in my view) in need of a caregiver to make basic decisions for him. He can’t read street signs (or bakery windows) yet insisted on driving me along the winding mountain roads of Point Reyes Seashore, where he nearly got us killed. As soon as my horrendous weekend with him ended (after he threatened me with retaliation if I dared tell the truth about what happened, I reported my safety concerns to CS. The management has strung me along for weeks, and they have done nothing.
Nithin… thanks for putting this out there! It is not the same as it was that is for sure…
Nithin, thank you a lot for this text. I must say that unfortunately this is all true. And I’ve been noticing that small communities stay as they were, but once you get inside a bigger one, that totally disappears, and the worst is that the old surfers can’t even make them understand that things didn’t use to be like this at all.
I was so criticised and even invited to leave a city’s group only because I didn’t agree with people selling stuff or searching for dates. And now I’m being seen as an outlaw or a freak only because I want couchsurfing here where I live now to be as it used to be.
Nithin,
with all the above I totally agree.
It’s tha same here in germany / europe. No more community left, all I see is “I am coming to town, who wants to host me and show me around town”…. really? that’s all that is left?
It’s so sad, I feel like I lost a big part of my family.
I know that there are still good people out there, only now there are more difficult to spot.
Let’s hope BW is getting more active soon!
all the best and see you around =)
Ralf
Hello Nithin,
like RockingRalf commenting before I come from Germany and I want to thank you for this text. It sums up all the points that have made me as well as other active members of our city group move (to BW).
Just like you, I´ve had the feeling during the last months that the community spirit on C$ is eroding more and more, especially alienating those members that used to be most active. As for me, I used to be organizer of local meetings, active host and traveller and member of the NMW group. The last guests and hosts I had via C$ were also somewhat weird. My last host was a photographer who wanted to take pictures of his female guests in the nude as a pay-off for hospitality… as I was his first guest I tried to explain to him that is not what C$ should be about… and after that trip and the new terms of use I decided I didn´t want to be involved with the site anymore. I wouldn´t recommend it to female travellers for security concerns either.
Now we slowly get a city community going on BW. It´s really fun to get this started again, so I can only recommend to move your profile, take your local friends with you and start all over. We still promote the meetings on C$ but without mentioning any of the two site names.
AirFranconia Unfortunately too many people are leaving couchsurfing, including those guys who just want to date girls or similar. And do you want to guess where are they going to? BW. That’s a big problem, and the thing is that BW doesn’t have the structure couchsurfing used to have. It lacks ideals, and well I see in BW the same I saw in other similar things that came really similar to couchsurfing.
The difference was that the other similar things, came when cs was still big, so they ended up not having a big impact. But the mistakes were there. The same mistakes I see on BW.
I try to explain people where I live now that cs isn’t a tool to meet people. It is something way different than that. It is a tool to meet people with this same mindset of traveling and different cultures. Nowadays I see guys on cs who just want to meet girls, or others who just want to meet people but they don’t even want to host, or they aren’t even interested on different cultures.
Some are even terribly closed to other cultures, thing I can’t really understand on this community. And as RockingRalf said, I also feel that I’ve lost a big part of my family.
I miss having to explain new couchsurfers why I love couchsurfing, and what they can do to make it a better place. How they can help others, and meet people, and mainly make friends.
The answer usually comes back as “I don’t care” or “People are free to do whatever they want”. And indeed they are but again, what I see now is the same as if a group of vegetarians suddenly decides to start going to macdonalds. They are free to do so, but it kind of defeats the purpose of the initial idea doesn’t it?
BTW a friend of mine started this petition http://www.change.org/petitions/couchsurfing-give-back-couchsurfing-to-couchsurfers. I think only one or two signed so far, but well I think it’s worth to share.
FilipeTeixeiraWell @Felipe in my everyday job as a teacher (of minor students 16-18 years of age) I´ve come to notice that more and more of them join C$ “because it is cool and in the media”. I keep telling them that C$ is not that cool anymore.
As I feel some sort of responsibility for people coming to my city, I have decided to move my basic account. At least regarding our local group (it´s a small city and not Berlin) we – that means the core hospex userbase consisting of 4-5 persons – can now all say that when you request our couches via BW/NC/C$ it is completely trustworthy and that we also have an overview of and that we know the other hospex members (many of them personally) around town – whichever network they are in.
As for me, I will not go back to C$ as my hospex base just because it is cool and in the media.
FilipeTeixeira AirFranconia “BW. That’s a big problem, and the thing is that BW doesn’t have the structure couchsurfing used to have. It lacks ideals, and well I see in BW the same I saw in other similar things that came really similar to couchsurfing.”
What structure are you talking about? And which ideals does BW lack that the people who sold out CS have according to you?
BeWelcome is one of the most idealistic orgs I know. People are literally afraid of money. The whole thing is running on less than 1300 euro per year (2013). No travel or food imbursements. On top of that, the way it’s set up makes it extremely hard for any group to come in and sell out the thing in the way that Casey and Dan have. See also http://www.bewelcome.org/wiki/Can_BeWelcome_be_sold
guaka It’s pretty simple actually. It’s not designed to spread a community or sharing spirit. It’s just a totally different concept. I think that BW is indeed for people who want to make friends or meet others but not necessarily travellers.
So I’m sorry but it’s totally different from CS. I don’t feel comfortable or safe with BW. Probably it still has to grow, but it’s going on the wrong direction by making it a place to make friends or meet people instead of sharing a community spirit.
guakaWhat structure are you talking about?
The decision making structure . Nothing moves on bewelcome. bewelcome says they are open but blocks tim loal ? The voting structure BOD is a terrible structure nothing moves till the majority BOD (zero visionaries vote) . example forum quality,search code,bwrox decisions
And which ideals does BW lack that the people who sold out CS have according to you?
Well talking to the BOD and look on the forums . The BOD is about “family meetings” and “local meetups” they are not pro hosting and global exchange. The whole BOD is mainly Europeans gives a racist feel to the group (BOD) structure (they may not say it openly but it is obvious )
The BOD and ex BOD are very very suspicious about anyone who want to help (maybe because they are ex hospitality club members ?)
Did want to point out some inaccuracies: we have a weekly meeting, for Couchsurfers in San Diego, it is not biweekly. I know that because I run the event and have seen your name several times on the event’s RSVP list. Not sure if we’ve met before.
Besides that, I guess I was nitpicking but I agree with what you’re saying about the site. The community is changing. Not for the better. I have seen the people that come to our Tipsy Tuesday change in their focus. I primarily like to run the event to meet new people but I feel like the people are less and less like the people I met when I first started going. A lot of the people have never surfed or ever hosted, and it’s a bit of a social event. It’s not a bad thing but I miss meeting lots of new travelers with stories since because of work I can’t travel as much as I used to and can live vicariously through them.
Now, I am trying my best to not take this personally because I feel like you’re also taking a few shots at the San Diego CS community. The site isn’t as good as it used to be. The overall community has become more about what a person can get for free and less about traveling and meeting new people and making new friends (not girlfriends or boyfriends.)
I joined in 2010 and my friends had been talking about the site for years. I got out of a relationship and wanted to see the world. The site had already been changing by the time I joined. Almost three years later the site is almost unrecognizable.
Some things have improved but for the most part the site is having issues. If we leave because the site is changing are we giving it up without a fight? Are we letting CS die because we’re stubborn? Because BeWelcome isn’t close to what CS is, but I guess with work maybe it could be.
I just feel like if you’re going to leave the CS community and not stay and fight for it, why even complain about it?
The SD group is pretty active. We do a lot of things together. Potlucks, surfing trips, we go camping together, rock climbing together, etc. Do you not see these activities or do they not interest you?
Thanks everyone for the insightful and thoughtful comments! That goes to those who posted below or send me messages via Twitter, BeWelcome, CS, or email. Its obvious that many people care deeply about Couchsurfing. I hope this can spur a discussion of how to protect the community or build something stronger elsewhere. I personally have other fish to fry (chilis.nithincoca.com!) so won’t be as imvolved but do plan to continue using CS in a limited form (brookeyarns – ill still use it to meet fellow writers) and BeWelcome more heartily.
Please comment and let me know if you have questions.
In some points you’re right. In some you’re not.
First, I’d like to refer to th gender thing. There is 53% male users in CS vs 47% female users, so it’s pretty balanced. I get that you feel bad about having smaller chances to find a host than a girl, but i don’t think that CS is to blame. It’s simply safer to host a girl, so girls get more invitations.
Second thing is that ‘CS is not a dating site’. Well… it’s not, but you know what? I know many couples that found eachother via CS, it’s as good to find a significant someone, as any other place/website/circumstances. I’ve never been even close to be sexually assaulted, I’ve never been in danger because of CS. I ignore pushy PMs or just tell the sender why I find that message creepy. If I meet a CSer and there is a chemistry between us, we can flirt, sure, why not, flirt is fun. I’m not gonna refrain from it just because I met that guy on CS, not on a street. If I don’t like him and he’s hitting on me, I know how to say ‘no’, and it always works.
I joined CS in 2009, it was already big. If we’re talking about community, I can see a difference between a community of 100 members and 1 million members, but not much difference between those of 1 million and almost 6 million. It seems to me, that the grass is always greener on the other side of a fence, so yeah, I feel nostalgic about good old times too, but I still meet as many cool people in CS as I used to meet before. I dunno, maybe I’m just lucky.
What I see though, is that early members feel superior. Newbies have problems with etiquette, I must admit. Now I’m getting more copy-paste requests with just one or two sentences in it (no ‘thank you’, no ‘please’), but I see it as a general problem, people are generally less courteous I’m afraid. Instead of being all dramatic about it and quitting CS, I’m taking time on educating them, saying that ‘Hey man, you are expecting me to open my house for you and you don’t even bother to write a personal request? You won’t get many invitations this way’. I’ve never get a rude response for it, it’s more like “I’m sorry, I was just afraid of not getting any couch, so let me introduce myself…”.
So again, chill out, stop being so square about it, people are only people, response on their stupid/careless actions with a positive energy and they will not only reflect it to you but will also spread it to other people.
In some points you’re right. In some you’re not.
First, I’d like to refer to th gender thing. There is 53% male users in CS vs 47% female users, so it’s pretty balanced. I get that you feel bad about having smaller chances to find a host than a girl, but i don’t think that CS is to blame. It’s simply safer to host a girl, so girls get more invitations.
Second thing is that ‘CS is not a dating site’. Well… it’s not, but you know what? I know many couples that found eachother via CS, it’s as good to find a significant someone, as any other place/website/circumstances. I’ve never been even close to be sexually assaulted, I’ve never been in danger because of CS. I ignore pushy PMs or just tell the sender why I find that message creepy. If I meet a CSer and there is a chemistry between us, we can flirt, sure, why not, flirt is fun. I’m not gonna refrain from it just because I met that guy on CS, not on a street. If I don’t like him and he’s hitting on me, I know how to say ‘no’, and it always works.
I joined CS in 2009, it was already big. If we’re talking about community, I can see a difference between a community of 100 members and 1 million members, but not much difference between those of 1 million and almost 6 million. It seems to me, that the grass is always greener on the other side of a fence, so yeah, I feel nostalgic about good old times too, but I still meet as many cool people in CS as I used to meet before. I dunno, maybe I’m just lucky.
What I see though, is that early members feel superior. Newbies have problems with etiquette, I must admit. Now I’m getting more copy-paste requests with just one or two sentences in it (no ‘thank you’, no ‘please’), but I see it as a general problem, people are generally less courteous I’m afraid. Instead of being all dramatic about it and quitting CS, I’m taking time on educating them, saying that ‘Hey man, you are expecting me to open my house for you and you don’t even bother to write a personal request? You won’t get many invitations this way’. I’ve never get a rude response for it, it’s more like “I’m sorry, I was just afraid of not getting any couch, so let me introduce myself…”.
So again, chill out, stop being so square about it, people are only people, response on their stupid/careless actions with a positive energy and they will not only reflect it to you but will also spread it to other people.
tenawesomeyears It’s true, its always been easier for girls to find a host than boys. But I think the point was being made that the emphasis is now more on getting laid. Youre right, hook ups are going to happen between similar people. But I think Nithins complaint was actually about the priority shift from helping someone out to getting laid.
yes, newbies have always had ettiquette problems, as did I at the start. Usually I just explain to them how it works and it’s all good.
I’ve largely stayed out of this debate because I take the same approach as you – chilling out. But I can understand why Nithin is so passionate about this – he put a lot more of himself into this community than I ever did. He got more involved and invested, so its understandable why those who gave more to the community, feel more about it’s demise.
I’ve been on the site for a few years and I agree wholeheartedly that the quality of members has gone down hill. I also want to address this one issue everyone seems so upset about, the gender and sex issue. I know CS members make a huge deal out of the “CS is not a dating site” thing to the point of almost paranoia. Who are we fooling, tons of sex has been happening via CS for a long time. It was just sort of hushed about and kept on the down low but we all know it happens. These “Ambassadors” when you get a few beers in them and they trust you will tell you all about their hookups from the hundreds of surfers they’ve “welcomed” to their homes. Funny how we act like this is something new. I think the difference is that the open invite feature has made it glaringly obvious when you see almost no guys with the 3 or more invites and every attractive young woman has it. But make no mistake, it’s been going on all along, it just wasn’t out in the open for all to see. And keep in mind it’s not like women don’t send couch requests to guys they think are cute. Think about it, some girl is traveling around the world for months on end by herself and has no boyfriend, maybe she wants to have a little fun every now and then too. What’s so awful about that? How does that destroy the CS spirit?
You aren’t going to overcome human nature. If you have a man and woman, both single and both attracted to each other out having fun, seeing sites and bonding over new experience, sex can be quite likely to happen. Now I’m not saying guys should ONLY be on CS for that purpose, but any guy that’s on here long enough is going to be in situations like this. And there’s nothing wrong with it. I think we need to be realistic too. There are way more guys on CS than women. Is it any surprise that a pretty girl traveling alone is getting lots of invites? Getting angry over that is like getting angry at the weather. It’s just the way it is and there’s nothing you’re going to be able to do about it. Men want to be around pretty women. Plain and simple. It’s human nature and there’s no changing it.
I don’t think it makes the site any less safe. So I really don’t get the almost Victorian ethos that many long-time CSers possess. It’s like they think if a male and female CS member hook up it destroys the site or something. As someone else mentioned, I know tons of people who met their boyfriends/girlfriends due to this site. Maybe it started off as a hookup but became something more. Good for them. You already know that you probably have a lot in common just by being on the site so it’s as good a place to meet someone as any. I don’t spend any time worrying about why some guy only hosts girls. If girls keep staying with him and leaving positive references then obviously the girls staying with him don’t care, so why should anyone else?
muki76 i don’t, not even once, mention dating in my article. I only talk about safety issues and things ive heard directly from female CSers, some old members, other newer ones, most of whom had concerns about safety. I also disagree that men being predators or going for pretty girls is “human nature.” Its a societal norm, and assuming it is okay is only allowing for bad behavior and excusing that activities of males in society.
excinitmuki76
Sorry, I should’ve clarified that my post wasn’t addressed directly toward you, but toward everyone as I was reading down through the comments.
” I also disagree that men being predators or going for pretty girls is “human nature.””
I think “predator” is a bit strong of a word, no? It implies something evil, like a rapis or something. They are no more predators than guys who message a girl on OKCupid. Not that I’m saying CS is set up for that purpose, but it doesn’t make them predators either. And it ignores the fact that women search for sex as well. I know hosts who had women admit that they choose him (and slept with him)because she thought he was hot. There is only one documented case of a rape that ever happened due to CS and it came from a girl who stayed with a guy with no references or anything. I have no idea why a woman would stay with a lone guy she’s never met if the guy isn’t vouched for by the community and doesn’t have a single reference. Now THAT guy was a predator.
I’ll disclose a bit on myself. I’ve been on the site for about 4 years now. I’ve hosted solo males, solo females, 2 females, male/female married couples. At this point I rarely host anymore, haven’t hosted since last summer almost. Most my experiences were good. However as a single man, I couldn’t help but notice that my best times were with hosting solo females. I mean WAY much more fun than hosting a guy. Even if hooking up wasn’t involved there’s a lot more you can do with them. Like go out dancing for example. I’m not going to take a guy out to dance. Those experiences were so much more fun to the point that I just lost interest in hosting guys. I’d still host a guy sometimes but only if he seemed especially interesting and wrote a great request. I went in to CS with an open mind and hosted almost anyone that sent a request, but over time you start discovering what type of people you enjoy spending time with and for many men, that will end up being attractive single women. That’s just the way it is.
Recently I was curious about how many guys were on the site to hookup. So I set up a fake profile of an attractive girl. I got over a few dozen replies within the course of a week and random guys just sending messages trying to get me out for a drink. I guess none of this is surprising, but what WAS surprising is that not even one single woman offered a couch. Not ONE. The times I’ve hosted solo women and we got comfortable, I’d ask them why they chose to stay with a man and not a woman. They would confess that they tried to find a female host but none of them ever reply so they end up staying with guys. So for all the women that complain about guys on the site trying to sleep with young foreign girls, do you offer these girls your couch? Why do women like to use the site to travel for the world for free, but yet don’t want to give up any of their own time to host when they get home? Keep in mind I asked these girls about it long before the recent changes. I think this situation has been the case with CS for some time now. Guys have trouble finding hosts or anyone to show them around, women largely ignore all request from either men or women, men are like 90% of the people opening their couches, and pretty women can expect guys competing with each other like crabs in a bucket to host her. Is this anything new? No. It’s been the case for some time.
If this is a problem, it can be solved overnight. They can make the site so you can only couch surf with someone of the same sex. When women search for a couch only female hosts will show up and when men search only male hosts will show up. Of course the problem is, CS would fold overnight. Few women would ever get hosted since women barely host, and guys aren’t all that interested in hosting guys and they would just delete their profiles.
But there is a middle ground. Have I ever tried to hook up with my female surfers, yes. Have some of these female surfers ever started flirting with me? Yes. Have I ever done anything inappropriate? No. I’ve never been in any way pushy or did anything to make them feel uncomfortable. Nor have I flirted with every girl that’s stayed with me. Sometimes the vibe is just there and you go with it. If it’s not there, I just keep the conversation platonic and enjoy their company as a friend. To me it’s not an either/or thing. I have no expectations that any woman will want to hook up. For the most part that’s not why most of them are on here. But if you’re having fun and she seems into it, then go for it. I just witnessed something like this recently. A girl posted a request in a local forum. Guys pile on to invite her like usual. I end up going to a party that night that was advertised on the forum and saw her there with a guy that hosted her. Before you know it I see them drinking, dancing and making it out. I can guess what happened later that night. Seemed they both had a great time. Good for them.
muki76 excinit The problem here is that there are couchsurfers like a guy so called mavericktraveler, you can check his website, who spend their time teaching how to hook up with girls, and sometimes he even talks about practices close to raping.
I’m sorry but that’s absurd. I’m a couchsurfer since 2009 and for sure, I had already 3 girlfriends thanks to it, but there’s a simple difference between me and the other guy I talked about. First I’m not trying to rape anyone, and second I’m not on couchsurfing for dating.
A lot of people where I live, are just on CS because they can’t meet people otherwise, and because they are also searching for a date. I’m truly sorry but CS is about sharing experiences and culture. It’s about traveling and friends. Not about drinking and shagging and boring others to death.
A couple of years ago, there used to be nice activities within the couchsurfing spirit and the travel theme. Now all I see is drinking, drinking, dating, drinking and whenever I even try a nice activity I’m immediately ignored. I don’t get it as 2 years ago, those same activities I used to organise always had more than 20 participants.
So I ask myself. WTF is happening to couchsurfing?
FilipeTeixeira muki76 excinit
Yeah, I know what you’re saying. I guess what I mean to say is that couchsurfing should not be primarily about hooking up. I have experienced the cultural exchange, had people cook foreign foods I’ve never tried, teach me some of their language, show them the great hidden gems of my city and had amazing experiences like that. So I’ve experienced that true “CS spirit” the way it’s intended. At the same time, I also understand that when single men and women get together, sometimes nature is just going to take its course and there’s nothing wrong with that. Like I said before, there’s a lot worse places you can meet a partner than CS and you have the common ground of interests to start with. People used to meet those they had a lot in common with in churches, but as society becomes more secular, I think people crave for other idea/values-based communities to meet people for friendship as well as romance as opposed to meeting at bars and clubs which are often empty experiences. I think there’s a way to still have the CS experience and still be open to dating/sex/romance opportunities if they arise. My rule when hosting women is first and foremost to not be inappropriate or act like I expect them to hook up with me in exchange for housing. There’s a lot of trust on CS and to act like a horndog with no regard to girl’s feelings is an abuse of the situation. That said, if you’re out having fun, have had a few drinks, dancing, she’s getting flirty, go ahead and make a move. I’ve had a few girls reject my flirting but they were always sweet about it and never made any big deal. They know “boys are gonna be boys” and can usually laugh it off. I left it alone after that and just enjoyed their company platonically. I still got good references from them.
I looked at Mavericktraveler’s article. I didn’t see anything about raping on there. Just seemed like he was talking about how to get consensual sex from women that he hosts or meets off the site. I understand why such an article would be problematic with people but please, let’s take the word rape more seriously. I see it too cavalierly thrown out there. Rape is when a girl refuses sex and gets it forced on her, or if she is in some position where she can’t consent to it because she’s unconscious. If we’re talking about a consensual sex between two adults the word rape shouldn’t be brought up. You are cheapening the word if anything.
I think female CS hosts are just overwhelmed. Since men seem to not want to host each other and prefer only hosting women, naturally the men will request couches from women. Then all of the women who don’t feel like they want to be harrassed if they request couches from men, also try to surf with other women. I’ve asked a lot of women to host me, several have written back saying that they would but they are backlogged with requests. So I’m sure the women get the majority of requests from both sexes as both seem to want female hosts.
harukalioncourt muki76 i think that’s exactly the problem, and what i was mentioning earlier. A gendered CS will inevitably not work, and less and less people will be able to find hosts. saying this is “human nature” ignores the problem…too often, men blame their actions on nature when in reality, it is the choices we make and the society we live in. there are many examples in history of societies built in a completely different fashion with regards to gender.
excinit harukalioncourt muki76 Nobody ever say hooking up was wrong on CS. But theres a huge difference between sex that organically happens, and people who join the site SPECIFICALLY to hook up. That’s my complaint.
As for female hosts not offerring couches, I’d like some statistics on this. I;ve been hosted by loads of woman. Also many people chose to only host women because they think they are more trustworthy. I personally love to host single women because they are generally open minded, adventurous and independant. maybe it’s different in different countries? In USA when I was looking for couches in NYC, Miami and NOLA, I didn’t find any female hosts, but this was partly because I didn’t find too many interesting profiles so I didn’t contact as many.
AnnFoo excinit harukalioncourt muki76
This ties in well with what excint was saying about
community-
A healthy community will self-police and evolve to keep its
members safe.
Couchsurfing was filled with passionate learners and explorers, so
it strikes me as an abysmal failure that more hasn’t been done by the community
as a whole to get smart about Social Justice issues.
Even in this thread of passionate surfers,
there are some seriously problematic assumptions.
In the entire history of CS, nothing has been
so compelling as verification, vouching, and references for improving the
safety and trust of CS interactions. It
has been a decade since that system was put in place.
Why haven’t we implemented a better way to
protect women and give a larger voice to underprivileged or culturally
different members? Why haven’t we
learned to be better people and build a better system through our experiences?
How do we get community back?
NeedleOfJustice AnnFoo excinit harukalioncourt muki76
Muki, I just re read this thread and I think you’re very niave if you DON’T believe predators regularly use CS. And I’m not talking about a simple hook up between consenting partners that occurs organically. I mean, a calculated and planned attack on vulnerable women. And yes, there are female predators too. However the overwhelming majority are men because in our world, men inherently occupy a greater position of financial, political and physical power, and for these reasons I do consider male predators a greater threat.
Needle, I believe CS was always a bit flawed from the get go in that it started with one guy, centralised control. As much as we all like to believe it was a community, that aspect was secondary to the fact that it was an establishment created by one person. If this hadn’t been the case, then that one person would have been able to go against the wishes of the entire community. A healthy community can either progress with or without centralised control – if with central control, that control should be democratically elected and periodically challenged. Personally I don’t think CS needs centralised control, it just happened that way because it was Casey Fenton’s idea.
As to the other other problems you mention (safety, cultural diversity), well, as much as I am concerned about these problems, I’m also loathe to impose an overly prescriptive rule book that takes away peoiple’s own self determination. CS is just a microcosm of the real world. If people find themselves in unsafe situations on CS, chances are it would have happened in the real world as well. Not that I don’t take rape/sexual harrasment seriously – I do. However, I also believe that sometimes the best thing a vulnerable person can learn in our society is how to not be taken advantage of, or at least how to mitify that danger.
In terms of making a greater effort to ‘get smart about social issues’ or give greater voice to cultuarally different members, while that all sounds great, it is not, and never has been, the concern of CS. CS is a network of travellers with a goal to facillitate cultural awareness through direct contact. Other social issues may progress through CS groups and other offshoots, but that was never part of the original ethic. Considering that it’s hard enough to get new members to even understand the original ethic, I don’t see the value in promoting secondary ethics, even if they are worthy ones.
Personally I thought the system of providing references and vouching was fine. It was basically a voting system by the people for the people. I wouldn’t want any more hardline ‘rules’ than that. The main problem now is that a lot of new members don’t value that system and don’t contribute to it – they don’t leave references or bother to read others, so the referencing system is no longer an accurate gage.
If I were to make one rule, it would be that anyone who surfs or hosts someone who doesn;t have a reference, MUST leave them a reference. That would fix the problem of these millions of new people joining who have NO history, and therefore, lower chances to participate.
I approach ‘community’ pragmatically. CS is not perfect. But are we forgetting that it never was? The same problems exist that always did, just on a larger scale now. My solution to that problem is simply to double my efforts to weed out the freeloaders.
AnnFoo NeedleOfJustice excinit harukalioncourt muki76
Hey Ann, I totally agree that CS was once a network of travelers with a goal to facilitate cultural awareness through direct contact. In my area that has changed, and I think a lot of others agree that it is now something different.
I think my big point is that when CS was a young org it could get away with a lot. Now it is older and ought to be more mature on account of that. A lot of people have called for a need for change yet the changes don’t appear to be working and may be making things worse.
My stance is that any mature organization that touts “cultural awareness” has an obligation to actively promote practical social justice.
I love taking new people rock climbing, but they need to be able to communicate. We set certain boundaries and follow certain safety rules.
I think CS could benefit from a badge system or somesuch, that confirms a person has undergone semi-formal community training, “jury of your peers” style.
Like: This person knows that consent is required before touching someone. This person knows that racial stereotyping isn’t ok. This person has been introduced to your country’s customs. This person knows when to call the ambulance for a sick person.
It’s only somewhat more intricate than the vouching system, and opens up a huge opportunity for skill share: This person can teach scuba diving, this person can fix your car, this person can teach you quantum mechanics…
I think we agree CS needs a new form of community-based management.
Is it worth trying to take CS into our own hands, or should we just let it drift?
NeedleOfJustice AnnFoo excinit harukalioncourt muki76
Needle, I can see the use for a badge system. However, that in itself creates greater problems… firstly, in order to implement such a system would neccesitate centralised control, which I think creates more problems than it solves.
Secondly, you are forgetting that a ‘badge system’ such as you propose already exists. It’s called the Law. The Law already dictates that it’s not ok to touch someone without their consent. The law dictates that racism is not ok. The Law dictates that it is negligent to not call an ambulance for a sick person.
Given that our society is dictated by the Law, the assumption is that all free people who are not in jail already know all these things. We all know in reality that is not the case. My point is, given how hard it is to enforce these ethics in society, realistically, I don’t think it’s feasible to enforce them on CS. They used to be enforced naturally when CS was a smaller community, purely because it was all word of mouth, and I would never bother to tell a racist person about CS anyway.
However, sub-communities that stay true to the original ethic of CS still exist, as smaller microcosms within CS. There are still many people who retain the orignal principles. Even new members. You just have to be a little more discerning. We DID take CS into our own hands. That already happened from day 1 – I never had anything to do with Casey Fenton. I was always just here, doing my thing.
A revolution doesn’t always need a dramatic overthrow or restructure. Sometimes it just needs old timers to hang in there and show the kids the ropes.
I joined CS in 2007 and I also can truly state that some of the best friends in life I made through CS. I used it both as host and surfer less in the last couple of years, which is simply because I haven’t travelled as much as before and also because my life became more – complex maybe – so I just felt I didn’t want to host as much as before.
Nonetheless, I’d say, you may be right in some respect, the community has changed, the new members are using it differently etc – I also dislike the “invite” feature as well as the fact that now I have to make my couch request public, so that everyone could potentially invite me… But my experience is, it is still possible to meet really really nice people on CS that can become your friends. I think we just have to use it better, you have to use the website in a more skillful way than before – on that I agree.
I happened to surf in New York City in October 2012 for a couple of days and I met, once again, a truly amazing host. We are still in contact and will be in the future I hope, it was truly magical. January 2013 I met a new CSer from NYC who came to Montreal and we just met up, I showed him around and we kept in mind to meet again if I ever go back to NYC – it was as if nothing had changed since I joined that website.
If you write “…I still believe in that dream, that we can turn the internet into the amazing, transnational, cultural tool for social change”. Of course, this ideal is not an easy one to catch and looking at it from that point of view, you almsot have to fall down inevitably – for me at least it has never been how I ever viewed couchsurfing.
There may be more downsides now than before, but I disagree in seeing it all that black and white. Yes, over the years it has changed a lot and therefore maybe so our attitude also has to change.
Blaming the admins for the change of their community seems kind of far-fetched. What exactly did they do wrong? What should they have done? Block new users!?
Besides, you might want to research, why Couchsurfing International wasn’t allowed to stay a non-profit before coming to unfounded conclusions.
floc why weren’t they allowed to? I worked for non-profits my whole life. I’ve set up non-profits. From what I know there was missing money, undemocratic leadership, and non-existent accounting. So they choose an easy path. Had they run the site with integrity from the beginning, non-profit status would have been easily achievable. Had Casey Fenton not run it as his personal fiefdom, it wouldn’t have had to be sold to investors.
excinit From what I’ve read the IRS denied them nonprofit status:
http://www.triplepundit.com/2011/09/couchsurfing-corporation-bona-fide-bogus/
floc I’ve done enough research on this matter. CS could have stayed a NH non profit as they had been for years. They couldn’t get the 501(c)(3) status, but this almost seems malice, looking at the people who were (not) involved. No single lawyer with 501(c)(3) was hired to get this job done. But even Warmshowers, with a peanut budget managed to get it: https://github.com/rfay/Warmshowers.org/issues/227
guaka So basically they took the opportunity to go for profit?
Read “http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2007/12/09/pickwick-charity-status-what-casey-didnt-tell/index.html – that was in 2007. They continued in this way for 4 years and as such it’s not strange the IRS refused the 501(c)(3) application.
What should have happened, in 2007 or before, is accept knowledgeable people to come in and fix the legal mess, around the same time I was working on fixing the technical mess. Instead Casey chose to push for an even more fucked up non-disclosure agreement causing me and other highly skilled tech folk who were working for no monetary compensation to quit.
Casey (and groupthink friends) literally chose for growth and to ignore anyone who would take CouchSurfing closer to a transparent organization with 501(c)(3) status running on open source software.
Anyway, I don’t think blocking new users would be a good idea. I’m all for fostering and empowering local communities in the entire process and I have high hopes for BeWelcome in this regard.
guaka non profits do not work the best example is bewelcome (the best example of a bureaucratic non profit – with BOD etc ) . Guaka has been one of coder at bewelcome for the past 8 ? years and there has been no improvement in the code ie has not even come close to what casey(original cs coder) created in 2004. what does this say about 501/charity/non profit communities . The people on the BOD are so stuck with the non working platform bwrox they will not even more of any other open source (because things move when only a few vote on bewelcome nothing has moved in the past 5 years)
Hey people. Great to see this discussion taking shape. I have met one of my best friends through Couchsurfing, When I started using it in 2010 I thought it was amazing! I would like to add something to the discussion that I have not read yet. I do not believe that for-profit and growth are necessarily bad things. I think it is to easy to say that mister finance took over. Money is the blood of an organisation, it is needed. I think that what was lost has to do with values, beliefs and boundaries. That is what make a community and if people use the community for different reasons you should tell them about it multiple times and if they don’t change there ways you should part your ways. I do not believe that a community can solely thrive on being nice and open. I think love is needed and with love comes “tough love”. We all need somebody to tell us that our behavior is unacceptable sometimes. Boundaries.
miguelbovy but how much money (blood?!) is needed? 1250 euro is enough to keep BeWelcome running in 2013, with 40k members (and hopefully double that the end of the year). I know these things don’t scale linearly, but it’s a good indication. With a yearly income from donations exceeding 1M$ there was absolutely no need for CouchSurfing to sell out. But in a way I’m happy it happened since its “conversion” to a for profit has finally left some room for BeWelcome to grow.
guaka miguelbovyThanks for the facts. Sounds like they had more then enough money. In that case it is all about the beliefs, values and boundaries. Just saying that I do not see the harm of making some money as long as you stick to your values and beliefs and expect everyone else to do the same. If they don’t, ask them to better themselves or leave. If they don’t leave, cut them loose.
guaka miguelbovy Oh, and if you would compare the human body with a community or organization what would be analogous to blood in your mind? Just curious.
miguelbovy guaka I completely agree about your points about the community, and I don’t disagree about money either – CS did need money. But i think we also need to see where the money is coming from. It should come from the community. That is how non-profits operate – they get money from donations by those who agree with the cause. Not by private investors who have nothing to do with CS and expect, eventually, to see a return.
And, more importantly, the community should have a say in how the money is being used.
excinit miguelbovy guaka I agree that it is important to see where the money is coming from. I think the money should come from people how believe in the community whether they are inside our outside the community. You probably have a bigger chance of finding believers you can trust inside the community indeed. Alas, we are in agreement here. I like that. It is as shame that all of this went downhill. Something new will flourish though.
guaka miguelbovy do you trust guaka? 40k members number is thrown by someone who is not truthful. I doubt there are 1% active members,look at the forums there are complaints no one can find hosts on bewelcome . With 1250 euros the interface has not changed in the past 5 years. Promises by guaka to move bewelcome from bwrox to drupal has been on the back burner for the past 3 years. And they cant even get their old servers online (ticket 18 months old) http://trac.bewelcome.org/ticket/1514 . Do not expect to seen any mobile application of any improvement from the volunteer devs on bewelcome
@PeriSosa, I’m fine with people claiming many things but any real discussion ends where someone is stating that I am not truthful. Who are you anyway? I can’t find perisosa on CS or BW.
guaka trust comes from transparency ,and transparency comes from answering peoples doubts. So if you can please answer those question 1) what has stalled development for the past 5 years 2) why has all the past discussion been hidden or to server not brought back online (this almost is like the CS crash where everything got lost , there the bewelcome server is in a forest and the BOD is helpless in bringing the data back online ) .
@perisosa, yes, trust comes from transparency and among people transparency means showing your identity.
1. Development has not been stalled. 2. Who cares? There’s almost nothing of interest in there. Once it recovered you can read how people voted on using the GPL, for example, and how the separate forum was not deemed a good idea. IF you care you could be involved in a positive way and help make that information available again, but your tone and reluctance to tell who you are make me highly doubtful about your intentions.
guaka the old smf forum can be kept as an archive (read only) just like http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/ .Open couchsurfing had nothing to hide ,so why are you /BOD so worried about new members reading about the history of bewelcome/discussion and decision making of the developer ,members from the start of bewelcome ?(not the sanitised wiki (now impossible to edit ,unlike the media wiki platform) . Or are you worried they will see how decision making has not worked since 2008 .
Well my tone is because of your posts, where you are not sincerely telling new members the real problems of bewelcome (either on the cs brainstorm redefined forum or on other forums and threads) .
“1250 euro is enough to keep BeWelcome running in 2013, with 40k members (and hopefully double that the end of the year).”
This give a wrong impression about there being a lot o active members (when in reality ,it is almost impossible to find a host) . Also 1250 euros give the false impression that with that money the developers are motivated to improve bewelcome with the same passion as the paid devs on couchsurfing.
And bewelcome members prefer privacy ,so why are you interested in knowing about the person (instead of the persons views on the topic ) ?
Intention to hide the past history on bewelcome is the only intention which is very worrying . Especially for an organisation which wants to open/open source/transparent (not like casey,no like viet,not like cs,no like hc ) .
guaka the old smf forum can be kept as an archive (read only) just like http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/ .Open couchsurfing had nothing to hide ,so why are you /BOD so worried about new members reading about the history of bewelcome/discussion and decision making of the developer ,members from the start of bewelcome ?(not the sanitised wiki (now impossible to edit ,unlike the media wiki platform) . Or are you worried they will see how decision making has not worked since 2008 .
Well my tone is because of your posts, where you are not sincerely telling new members the real problems of bewelcome (either on the cs brainstorm redefined forum or on other forums and threads) .
“1250 euro is enough to keep BeWelcome running in 2013, with 40k members (and hopefully double that the end of the year).”
This give a wrong impression about there being a lot o active members (when in reality ,it is almost impossible to find a host) . Also 1250 euros give the false impression that with that money the developers are motivated to improve bewelcome with the same passion as the paid devs on couchsurfing.
And bewelcome members prefer privacy ,so why are you interested in knowing about the person (instead of the persons views on the topic ) ?
Intention to hide the past history on bewelcome is the only intention which is very worrying . Especially for an organisation which wants to open/open source/transparent (not like casey,no like viet,not like cs,no like hc ) .
PeriSosa guaka my two points (and i don’t want this forum to become a debate about BW.
Perisosa – i don’t understand why you such hatred to BW. If it fails, it fails…why bash it for trying? We can always nitpick, but going through 7 year old pages is putting up a straw man argument. as the saying goes, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
Guaka – the best way to respond is to prove Guaka wrong by making BW the site match BW the hopes and ideals. I personally am skeptical of BW, but hopeful that it can become a better tool.
PeriSosa It’s funny you bring up opencouchsurfing. The fact that people were allowed to post anonymously was one of the reasons we froze it. And then there’s actually a wiki that was there but that nobody (especially me) hasn’t bothered to set up again.
It’s much more that nobody really bothers to restore the old stuff (people are more happy working on things that matter). If you had the tech skills to bring back the old forums you could offer to do that, but you would probably have to stop wearing your invisible cloak. Or you could try to find someone else who you can pay to do it directly. Hell, you could pay me even to do it if you care so much, I’ll do it for 1000 euros, I really couldn’t be bothered otherwise.
Hi Nithin,
I agree with your a hundred percent – funny, I thought I was being an elitist prick by “testing the waters” whether a traveler was a fit with the CS vision and mission then. In the end, I still believe that I don’t have to sell the idea, my role is to explain the idea, then leave it to the person to decide it is a fit for them or not.
There is an additional point I’d like to raise. Not only has the CS site been focused with growth recently, but the tools that used to be present to keep a community in order and sustainable have been removed. Moderator functions, minimal as they are, are no longer there. The functionality was simple, flag relevant community-related activities, and provide a simple landing/welcome page for the new joiners. What we have now is a collection of “conversations”, leaving little flexibility to retain a semblance of an active, thriving community. What we have is a series of trivial thoughts that immediately get buried, thereby removing the backbone to help the little groups relevant. Oh well.
Many thanks for writing the article, I’ve been trying to collect words to articulate my thoughts (with much difficulty!), and your piece here hit the nail on the head.
safe and happy travels,
Ronnie
Hi Nithin,
I agree with your a hundred percent – funny, I thought I was being an elitist prick by “testing the waters” whether a traveler was a fit with the CS vision and mission then. In the end, I still believe that I don’t have to sell the idea, my role is to explain the idea, then leave it to the person to decide it is a fit for them or not.
There is an additional point I’d like to raise. Not only has the CS site been focused with growth recently, but the tools that used to be present to keep a community in order and sustainable have been removed. Moderator functions, minimal as they are, are no longer there. The functionality was simple, flag relevant community-related activities, and provide a simple landing/welcome page for the new joiners. What we have now is a collection of “conversations”, leaving little flexibility to retain a semblance of an active, thriving community. What we have is a series of trivial thoughts that immediately get buried, thereby removing the backbone to help the little groups relevant. Oh well.
Many thanks for writing the article, I’ve been trying to collect words to articulate my thoughts (with much difficulty!), and your piece here hit the nail on the head.
safe and happy travels,
Ronnie
Hi Nithin,
Funny enough, I just learned about your post through an old-time CSer who I first met in Cape Town 2010. He tagged a bunch of us on his FB status, and I am glad he did!
Literally spent the last hour reading through ALL the comments below – and it is great to see there are so many CSers who are still passionate – enough to post their thoughts and comments.
Down here in Cape Town, South Africa, I am afraid to say we are feeling the same impact. I joined CS in 2010 when I moved to the city, and CS literally saved my life as I didn’t know A SINGLE SOUL in the city. The local community was warm and welcoming, and I met 90% of my friends through the group within the first 6months. As a woman, it took me about 6-9months before feeling comfortable enough to venture out and try surf / host. That’s after hosting regular gatherings in the city, and meeting tons of people. When I did eventually surf, it was the most incredible experience and my hosts were stunning.
I took a bus to Port Elizabeth, literally jumped off the bus and was picked up by another CSer, who handed me a bicycle no questions asked, and then met up with Matthew Blake (British CSer who cycled around the rworld: www.worldwidebikeride.com/) and cycled 60km to Addo Elephant Park through one of the largest townships/ slums in the region. At the park, we met up with another CSer (with a car) and went on a safari drive! When i returned from the trip, I was bright-eyed and ready to give back to the community and started hosting. Never had a bad hosting experience, whether it be male/female/couple/ age groups.
These are the type of CS experience I miss most -of people who come alive at the thought of traveling, hearing others’ life stories, sampling new cultures, venturing off the beaten path….
I am still holding out hope, and host regular dinner meetings in my city now to connect with fellow travelers. It is a different crowd now, but the type of event/activity almost serve as a filter for CSers. With drinking-hole parties, you will get a specific vibe/demographic. With hiking/ exploring the city’s culture, you are more likely to find people who still embrace the CS spirit of sharing experience & learning about a new culture. I don’t think it has to be EITHER / OR , perhaps rather BOTH/ AND. Mix and match the various sites out there (CS, BW, Warm Showers , Hospitality clubs…) and cross-pollinate the good ideas.
Thanks for this post, and for sparking the passion within =)
bestcapetownSA i was just in Cape Town a few months ago! But I stayed at the apartment of a former CS guest of mine, though she wasn’t there, her roommate, though, was one of the most thoughtful people I’ve ever met. Only a true CSer lets someone stay when they’re not even there!
didn’t notice many events on the boards, though, but i was fairly busy too (only had a few days and then a conference in stellenbosch). I agree about creating self-filtering events…i used to organize Sunday morning Thai-temple brunch in SF, which kept all the riff-raff out (only those truly interested in cultural events get up at 8AM to get brunch at a Thai buddhist temple). but the new interface really makes it harder…no one can see my events anymore, and the invite feature is impossible to use :-/.
Most of this post is spot on, but I have something to add to the ‘gendered nature’ of CS.
The experience you had at the NYC meet up was not a reflection on the changes going on CS. It’s just a reflection on NYC. I considered couchsurfing when I first arrived and decided against it because none of the profiles seemed to be from interesting people – also, they were mostly men, 30+. This is suspicious, and basically suggests that they are men using the site like a dating site, to meet loose 🙂 , young, travelling women like me. I was also trying to contact people about work opportunities in film, and had a coffee with one guy. It was a dull conversation so I don’t remember it in any great detail, but I do remember him saying something that rubbed me the wrong way, about meeting girls on CS.
Secondly, couchsurfing in USA is different to other parts of the world. It’s used much more like a dating site, or to socialise. I believe this is not to do with CS, but to do with the fact that USA is a sex-obssessed culture, whereby all activities (professional, social or recreational) are simeoultaneously used to seek either sex or a spouse. Apologies, I don’t mean to offend anyone, and it’s not even a bad thing. It’s just an observation – sex occupies a much larger chunk of society in USA than anywhere else I’ve been. Anyway, this is why if you’re a female, you’re much more likely to get a male host, and vice versa, compared to europe where my hosts were pretty evenly split. Look, I’m not going to get on my high horse about it because I can be just as superficial as anyone else. If I had a choice between the hot european guy and the 50 yr old woman, I’d probably choose the hot guy. But I’d still host the 50 yr old woman once the guy had moved on.
I only had 3 hosts in USA – 2 in New Orleans and one in Miami. I slept with one in New Orleans and slept with the friend of my second host in New Orleans. In Miami I didn’t sleep with my host but he tried (not in a sleazy way – we had many great conversation that lead to a feeling of closeness he might have misinterpreted). Compared to in Europe where I had hundreds of hosts and only slept with one. The american mentality seemed to be that it’s the couchsurfers responsibility to understand they might get hit on, whereas the european mentality seems to be that the host feels like they are taking advantage if they try, so they are generally very respectful. The problem with the american mentality that it’s the couchsurfer’s responsibility to understand that sex might happen is:
1. It is untrue. CS was not set up to be a dating site, so people should not be made to accept responsibility for unwelcomed attention
2. It is problematic with cultures like Japanese, where it is considered extremely rude to refuse. I’m SURE this has happened at some point – someone makes advances on a japanese woman and they don’t feel comfortable refusing. But, this is basically rape, due to the lack of consent. Even if the perpetrator is unaware, it’s still rape.
In NYC I hosted a really cool german girl and her kid brother. Together they were making a tour of north america. She told me some horriffic experiences of other american hosts – once, her host had taken her and brother to a bar, then met a friend in the bar and took the friend home. They proceeded to fuck very loudly all night, with a german couchsurfer and her 16 yr old brother in the living room. The host also didn’t provide sheets or anythign, and didn’t tell them they needed to bring a sleeping bag. The concept of hospitality seemed a little lacking. We both shared the opinion tht couchsurfing in USA has a different agenda, and different purpose, than other countries.
My host in miami never travelled. He told me he joined the site because a friend told him it was a good way to get girls in bed. Unfortunately, it didn’t pan out that way for him, but he still loved it because it was like having new people to party with all the time.
Not that this sort of thing doesn’t goon in other countries, it’s just the mainstream in USA. Last year In sydney I rescued a 19 yr old belgium newbie that I met at a CS meet. He was staying with a 50 yr old gay man who was getting a bit sleazy – apparently this guy only hosted young boys, took them out, paid for everythign. But when the touching started, the couchsurfer thought it was time to move on.
Sorry Nithin, this is a bit of a tangent! But I did want to point out that the CS community is always going to be influenced by the dominant culture from country to country. I personally feel that US (and to a lesser extent, Australian) culture is not very hospitable, so things that I expect from a guest (being considerate of the space, cooking dinner now and then) might be second nature to europeans and asians, but aren’t neccesarily the kind of things that americans or australians think of.
Getting back to the original post, I rarely use the site anymore and am always very careful about who I chose, because there are a lot more uninteresting and inconsiderate people on CS than there used to be. With my strict screening process, I’ve met womderful people still, like the 19 yr old newbie who remains a dear dear friend. But, like one of my old CS friends from circa 2006 said, “It was always going to happen. It couldn’t stay small and controlled forever.”
AnnFoo I agree with you almost 100% :P. 2 weeks ago I hosted a really nice couple and honestly I think it will be the last time I’ll ever use couchsurfing.
When I was in Portugal, some years ago, we barely had any problems at all. The community respected the older couch surfers, and by older I mean with more experience, and it stayed like that.
I met amazing but I say truly amazing couchsurfers, including girls I fell in love for, people who cried when they were about to leave, good friends I still stay in touch with, people who truly changed my life forever. One of them changed it so much that I’ve ended up quitting my job, selling my car and to go and travel with her around the world.
It was a nice community with a lot of respect and that was what I loved about it.
Then I came to Belgium. I’m devastated with it. The community doesn’t accept that there are rules on couchsurfing and most of the time they say that it’s a free community so if people want to be here for dating, or for whatever they can do that. Some people even say that if you get a girl drunk enough to have sex with her, that’s not raping. I’m sorry but for me even if you use a girl in a way that you’ll leave her vulnerable to do things she doesn’t want to, that’s raping. Some girls get to a new place and for sure that if a guy makes a move at 2am and they have nowhere to go, they will do whatever they need to be a bit protected. Even if that means having sex with a stranger. It’s hideous and I don’t understand how and why those things happen.
The problem with CS is not the corporation status, or money or whatever. It’s that some jerks started to use CS and unfortunately the core community didn’t have enough patience to stop them. I still think that we could do something about it, but honestly I already have lost my hopes on it.
i agree NYC is a special beast…(and amazingly no one has come to defend it) but it also fit what i saw in SE Asia, and people in Berlin, Paris, etc, said its similar to what happened there. so i think the problem is more widespread…i think culture is part of it and you know my own opinions on NYC (though in SF 5-6 years ago, we certainly didn’t have predators and never, back then, heard of a girl with a bad experience – that all changed by 2010) but the site becoming more mainstream and allowing members who didn’t understand the spirit everywhere was more at fault. And the site turning into a party-network.
This article resonates with me. I’m a bit of an old timer myself, and first heard about CS from my college friend who went to high school with Casey Fenton. I had some amazing adventures surfing in Mexico, SF, Montreal, and all over Europe. I attended various meetups in SF, including an awesome Big Sur camping adventure and an invasion to Arcata. Met some incredibly memorable people too.
I started to see the shift while living in Montreal, when the host of an initially super fun monthly potluck got burned out by the sheer volume of attendees. Women at the event complained of awkward men vying for their attention. In 2010 I travelled in Europe, and met more phenomenal hosts. However, my attempts to connect with people via large meetups seemed to fail. Except for one very fun gaming night, each event involved some kind of bar costume party or pub crawl, and I just never felt comfortable amid all the drunken pretense. There was definitely a hookup vibe in the air, that I just couldn’t jive with.
That said, I did successfully find cool folks to attend festivals with in Krakow and Dresden. I think the key to making real connections is to reach out in the forums and seek out people who have specific shared interests. Events attempting to fill as many people in a bar as possible really aren’t going to be that fun. But shouting out to see who wants to rock out at an electronic music festival, or ride bikes in the Critical Mass ride, or whatever, allows a connection to a specific subset of people who are likely to resonate with your nature. But honestly, aside a hosting a few random nice surfers in the past two years, the scene seems very stagnant to me.
Very intersting reactions, I totally agree with you.
But to me, this decrease in quality is not only the fault of the massive non-cs-spirited growth, but also due to the new website :
– a facebook-like wall makes CSers use the website like Facebook itself (chit-chat rubbish talking, only beers and clubbing) ;
– the past organized “threads” are now mere “comments”, less prone to build rich communications ;
– the structured groups and subgroups are now irrelevant “Place Pages” where all topics are dealt indistinctively ;
– everybody can spam so easily any city “Place Page” with advertisements, commercial activities, etc ; in the good old times, at least you had to “join” the group (and to tell why)
I’m also active on http://www.bewelcome.org 😉
Hi Nithin,
It is disappointing when something you identify with strongly changes so much! We’d like to think that those values still exist and that there is still a lively community out there with a hospitable spirit. We’re trying to revolutionize the free homestays at Tripping to include additional safety features and emphasis on cultural exchange. We hope you’ll check us out! http://bit.ly/13dsOZY
Hi Nithin,
It is disappointing when something you identify with strongly changes so much! We’d like to think that those values still exist and that there is still a lively community out there with a hospitable spirit. We’re trying to revolutionize the free homestays at Tripping to include additional safety features and emphasis on cultural exchange. We hope you’ll check us out! http://bit.ly/13dsOZY
Hello Nithin,
Same thing happened here in São Paulo, weird guys searching for girls, and weird girls searching for “gringos”.
My first experience surfing was in nyc halloween of 2011 in a guy´s place with no references and a few pics, I trusted him and had an amazing time living “american experiences” such as beer pong, parties at rooftop, meeting a lot of csers, since then I startes attending the events here, hosting. In august 2012 I went to NYC again, sent some messages, but no reply. CS seems dead. At least there.
But don´t let this beautiful spirit die!
There are good people!
Hey, everyone. I was about to “get verified” on CS. I made a profile a few weeks ago. I want to host because I can’t travel, but love practicing foreign language. If CS is no good, can someone suggest another site that has some of that spirit that you said is now missing from CS. Send me a message at undertowphoto@gmail.com Thanks so much!
I am one of those rare couchsurfers who doesn’t have facebook. I guess that makes me a rare human actually…. 🙂 For years I’ve been told I need facebook to keep up on local events that I’ve missed. And now even more events are being posted on FB instead of CS because of the lack of interface ease on the website. (no conspiracy theory here, i swear…..:-) However it does seem more and more couchsurfing links are being directed to FB. For years I’ve been asked why I’m not on facebook and my answer was always, “Couchsurfing is my facebook. It’s possible to have five thousand friends on FB and have never met one of them. On couchsurfing, every friend you have is someone you’ve interacted with.” The day Couchsurfing takes another step towards Facebook and offers ‘couchland’ with virtual couchsurfing, I”m truly done with CS. That is the scariest part of this ‘going profit’ to me. The slow inexorable slide towards ‘virtual interaction’.
Couchsurfing is changing, but the longtime members are changing as well. Several of the original members I met at coffee meetups, potlucks and happy hours two and a half years ago, don’t come anymore for the simple reason of, “I don’t know anyone anymore”. Which to me is the most incongruous thing a couchsurfer can say. That’s the point, meeting people. They became ingrained in the “community” they joined and change is difficult. In Seattle we have seen many of the things stated in the article and the comments, but the core community, especially the new people who engage and become active, still has the same spirit of engagement and discovery. As long as it doesn’t become a facebook virtual event, I’m in.
thebasehit i also don’t have FB! i find this a troubling aspect of the entire internet…too many things (like Kickstarter, Zimride, etc) require FB. not good for CS, nor is it good for the internet.
I fear we recall old CS days as halcyon while scrutinizing our new experience in contrast to what CS was once. Things have inevitably changed–though I find CS just as compelling, even if for different reasons.
I too attended this 2008 Sequoia camping trip and too was marvelously impressed. To this day, under “couchsurfing experience” on my CS profile I still reference this trip. But more for its sexy impropriety ” “My most memorable [CS] experience was hanging out naked around a fire in Kings Canyon National Park with two guys, and three girls; though oddly from the waist down it appeared that three guys were present.” This amusing scene devolved into other distraction, surely inappropriate but too good natured silliness. And of the five of us warming ourselves by the fire, at least two were not profile carrying couchsurfers. I don’t recall how many other non-surfers were among our group this camping trip. But I do recall that other CS camping trips that 2008 had many non-members.
The spontaneity, new friendships, open arms and open values defined the CS you and I remember from 2008. And it is precisely the same values I continue to find today. Only last night, an American (me) a Korean and a Costa Rican cavorted around Amherst, MA from cafe to bar to house party over many hours. CS introduced us and mutual hunger for both diversity and good, old fun cemented us.
Much has changed, much remains the same. Though as we inspect the past, recall with circumspection what drove the magic. Here’s to the old days! You treated us well.
I fear we recall old CS days as halcyon while scrutinizing our new experience in contrast to what CS was once. Things have inevitably changed–though I find CS just as compelling, even if for different reasons.
I too attended this 2008 Sequoia camping trip and too was marvelously impressed. To this day, under “couchsurfing experience” on my CS profile I still reference this trip. But more for its sexy impropriety ” “My most memorable [CS] experience was hanging out naked around a fire in Kings Canyon National Park with two guys, and three girls; though oddly from the waist down it appeared that three guys were present.” This amusing scene devolved into other distraction, surely inappropriate but too good natured silliness. And of the five of us warming ourselves by the fire, at least two were not profile carrying couchsurfers. I don’t recall how many other non-surfers were among our group this camping trip. But I do recall that other CS camping trips that 2008 had many non-members.
The spontaneity, new friendships, open arms and open values defined the CS you and I remember from 2008. And it is precisely the same values I continue to find today. Only last night, an American (me) a Korean and a Costa Rican cavorted around Amherst, MA from cafe to bar to house party over many hours. CS introduced us and mutual hunger for both diversity and good, old fun cemented us.
Much has changed, much remains the same. Though as we inspect the past, recall with circumspection what drove the magic. Here’s to the old days! You treated us well.
Hi Nithin,My name is Krissa Curran and I am the CEO and Founder of a new travel marketplace and social network called “Friends of Friends Travel” – affectionately called “FOF Travel” for short. I’ve been reading through your articles and reviews on Couchsurfing’s rise and fall, and the nostalgia that is very much evident in you and the “old school” Couchsurfing community.
Funnily enough, I decided to set up FOF Travel with one of my bestest friends, and one of my dad’s oldest friends, to address one of the reasons why I never got into the whole “Couchsurfing thing”. Mainly that the quickest way to access free, safe and cheerful travel opportunities has always been, first and foremost, through existing friends, family and friends of friends (hence the name!).
Secondly, every traveller knows that free accommodation isn’t the only thing people need help with (though it’s certainly a biggie!). What about just a safe place to leave their stuff? Travel tips and advice? A chance to make new friends and reconnect with old ones? – Those are the other services we enable our members to offer each other for free.
We also have partnerships with some of the best travel and lifestyle brands like STA Travel, Hostelworld.com, Rough Guides, World Nomads, etc to give our Premium Club Members access to exclusive travel deals to try and make the whole travel process as cheap and safe as possible. We’re essentially a freemium service so there’s a FOF Travel experience for everyone. That way you can rest assured you can always use the site for free, and have the option of upgrading your account if you want to unlock extra features or make the most of our travel deals.
Most importantly, both DJ and myself are avid travellers and Third Culture Kids (TCKs). We’ve grown up all over the world. And while helping people exchange basic travel necessities like Roofs, Lockers, Coffees and Guides form part of our basic offering, they are a means to an end. Because what we’re actually trying to do, first and foremost, is allow people to “Travel the world, one friend at a time.” In other words, the first problem we wanted to solve was how to bridge the gap between “Opportunity Givers” (people with a vast, international network of friendly, philanthropic and trustworthy people) and “Opportunity Seekers” (people who want to travel more and open their horizons without breaking the bank).
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, and whether you think FOF Travel could be a new home – or at least a second home – to traditional Couchsurfers like yourself and everyone else reading these posts. We need people like you who are naturally “Opportunity Givers” – someone that could help your friends, and their friends, who may be a bit more wary of staying with complete strangers.
Feel free to email me at krissa@foftravel.com.
Meanwhile here’s a link to our site and Facebook page:
http://www.foftravel.com
https://www.facebook.com/foftravel
All the best,
– Krissa 🙂
Thank you for writing this Nithin. I am a long time couchsurfer (as in I joined 4 years ago). I just got my own place 2 months ago. After reading this an much of the comments, you’ve convinced me I need to not be lazy and switch my availability from “not available” to “maybe”. I don’t know why it took me this long!
It’s unfortunate, Nithin. I’ve been a couch surfer since near its inception because I think it’s the best way to travel. My wife and I were able to host a surfer here in Madison on his way back to college; we gave him the best meal of his life and took him to UW where he juggled for the crowds, what a great stay! We then traveled to England, surfing in London and Cambridge. As a father of three, my outlook on surfing has changed considerably because I’m pretty protective of my kiddos, but it disheartens me even more to learn about the direction CS has taken 🙁
WOW.I can’t recognise my experience with CS in what you have just said. I have never been interested in having new friends or in going to pubs, but in hosting and being as kind as I could with people traveling around the world. Help others, no myself. The culture of sharing is what attracted me to CS, and not a social network to have new friends or boyfriends or girlfriends or whatever.
CSurfers quality decreased? Don’t agree with that. After the 20 first guests the passion for a new, wonderful experience is not as thrilling.. yet I have hosted great people over these 5 years and I still did last month. As good as the first day.
The new website a shit? Sure! And the old one! How easily we forget all the problems that came with the old website and how its design was everything but welcoming!
Finally: am I the only one who never tried to flirt or have sex with any of my couchsurfers? I am shocked after reading what you have written. Shocked.
I disagree
I have been an active member of CS for some time now, joined in 2010 , so maybe I never really knew this “real spirit” that you describe, but I’ve read the Community Guidelines, and don’t understand why you speak so much about city events.
If you’re looking for a site that would bring together a community to organize city events, you’ve picked the wrong site haven’t you ?
The very caracteristics of the site make it ill-designed for that kind of use imho.
I personnally don’t really participate in nearby events, and am not engaged in local CS activity, but I live in a very toursitic spot and am welcoming surfers almost everyday.
Why should I expect any higher standards from my guests exept those of the Community Guidelines ?
Mostly agree with you, unfortunately cs has changed and there’s a lot of crap and sexism coming in. I’ve traveled thanks to any possible European youth mobility program, and I’ve found some of them “bad”, in this very way CS is being consumed. AIESEC, where many people know for the first time about CS, is one of those.I remember when I entered CS in 2009, I wanted so much to travel that I’ve found the site on myself, signed up, read its philosophy, read treads about it all before start using it.
Now, there are people with an empty profile posting this as private message (copy-paste): “hi Dario I and my friend in 7 jun going to Coimbra can we use your couch/floor for 1 Or 2 night ? In 9 june we go back to Porto We are very Fiendly. Pleas Give Me You Answer”
just sad
I read until I found “the mentally insane strangers” then all the seriousness of the article went down the loo as it “made perfect sense” to you.
Just because you had a profile it meant you could not be mentally insane strangers? Very clever!
And also, if they had been physically impaired would they have been a danger too?? And we all know that people with mental illnesses don’t stay in homes or with their families or close to the nurses and psychologists and psychiatrists who try to help them live their lives as normally as possible, no! They just go from one hostel to another trying to hurt pretty aussie girlies.
I agree with the rest, CS has become a big time piece of crap full of people who only think about going out to clubs. But to be honest no matter how long you’ve been a member after that comment, it means that your open mindedness that you think you have is probably not that open? Watch what you say next time.
Ineedawee
I think he means that he realized people trusted others on CS unconditionally back in those days. As for the girl’s comment about mentally deranged strangers in hostels, it was her pov, wasn’t it? Not his.
dexjerkon Ineedawee
He is the one who says “It made perfect sense”. I think that’s called… Agreeing??
It only means “The thought of taking advantage of a guest, male or female, was unthinkable [Just as I knew a guest would never take advantage of our trust and steal anything – which, to this day, has never happened.]”
That he didn’t say anything about the mentally deranged comment doesn’t mean he supported that comment. It merely indicates not addressing that side of the comment (because it’s unrelated and not to serve any point he’s making). So I decide to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Ineedawee dexjerkon I meant it made sense that CS can be safer than hostels as it allows you to know who you are staying with – a trust that existed much more in the early days. It doesn’t meant that i agree verbatim with her choice of words. my apologies if you were truly offended, but honestly, even my mom, a lifelong child Psychiatrist, didn’t see that as offensive.
excinit Ineedawee dexjerkon
lol, I SAW that. Anyway, I’m not offended as I said, addressing the comment didn’t contribute to the point you were making. I’m bewildered as to why it’s so easy to offend people these days.
dexjerkon excinit the perils of hitting post too soon! i had to delete her response, though. I’m open to real criticism but calling me a racist/sexist and an “inexperienced writer” was going too far.
excinit Ineedawee dexjerkon
For fuck’s sake, it’s time to chill out. (I had written ‘for christs sake’ there, but deleted it in favour of ‘fucks sake’ so as to not offend christians. I figure if anyone wants to be offended by the word ‘fuck’, at least they will be equally offended and not offended on religious grounds).
I believe I am the girl Nithin quoted making the ‘insane’ comment (was I? who the hell remembers, it was like 8 years ago.)
Firstly, that comment has been taken out of context. I use that kind of language, JOKINGLY, and being knowingly meldramatic, as it was my first meeting with Nithin and I wanted to establish myself in his eyes as a quirky character so I could therefore behave any way I pleased in front of him without worrying about being held to high moral standards. (that was a joke just then, in case you missed it.) If I am talking in person amongst equals, I feel no need to censor myself to standards of political correctness – indeed, doing so would feel insincere, even! If I’d known that comment would end up on a public blog in written form, I might have used different language (actually… no. That’s a lie.) That’s not to say, Nithin, that I’m upset with you for posting that comment. In fact I find it hilarious what people choose to get offended over, considering what a cesspool of racism, sexim and homophobia the internet is.
Secondly, I sincerely apologise if you really were offended by that comment. It was not my intent. However, I do not apologise for the comment at all. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what I said. I used 2 descriptors and a noun – mentally insane strangers. I believe if you were offended by this, it’s because you were imposing your own bias on the term ‘mentally insane’. Did I, at any point, imply that ALL mentally ill people are insane? No, I did not. That is your misinterpretation and jumping to conclusions. I was never talking about the mentally ill – YOU were the one that brought that up. I was only talking about insane people. And yes, there are a few of them in hostels. 40 yr old men who declare they’re in love with me after 3 days? Drunk women who leave plastic bags full of water lying around the dorm room? Kleptomanics who couldn’t help stealing other’s things? Yes, these are all people I’ve met in hostels. Did I say everyone staying in hostels were like this? Of course not. Did I say no one on CS was? Of course not. However, the fact remains that if someone is coherent enough to put together a decent CS profile, I have a much better chance of not winding up sharing a room with someone who randomly fills plastic bags full of water and hoards them in the dorm than I do at a hostel.
Inedawee, since you seem so keen to talk about the mentally ill, let me first start by saying that the term ‘mentally ill’ is on the boarder of becoming an offensive term, for the way that it polarises notions of mental illness and the mentally healthy. Mental Health is now described in terms of a dynamic scale upon which we inhabit different points at different times, but which is not static and therefore avoids labelling such as ‘mentally ill’ or ‘mentally deficient’.
Now that we;ve cleared that up, I’d like to address your comment:
“And we all know that people with mental illnesses don’t stay in homes or with their families or close to the nurses and psychologists and psychiatrists who try to help them live their lives as normally as possible, no! They just go from one hostel to another trying to hurt pretty aussie girlies.”
You live in a fantasy world if you think the majority of people with mental health problems are priveleged enough to be able to afford nurses, psychologists and psychiatrists. The underlying cause of most homelessness is mental health issues, so trust me, theres more people with psychological problems on the street than in hospitals. Ever been in the YHA Seattle? Talk to the staff. There are homeless people who stay there even though the hostel has a max 2 week limit. They leave for a week and come back for another 2 weeks. I’m not saying I have a problem with this – my point is that it’s a known problem amongst hostel staff. There ARE people with mental health issues living in hostels. With constant government cuts to facilities, where else do you expect them to be, or did you not bother thinking about it?
Not that I have a problem with living in a psychologically diverse world. I have nothing valueble for the klepto to steal, and as long as I didn’t take the bags of water, me and the drunk lady were fine. I’m quite the nutter myself. Note for all readers (since it seems I have to spell out a lot), The characters I’m describing were not really dangerous, just colourful. (just wanted to clarify that before someone else tries to put words in my mouth.)
“Watch what you say next time”???
PLEASE.
How about you read properly and not impose your own bias on other’s words.
i agree with your opinion…unfortunately 🙁 it is time to move on from CS, which also provided me with many beautiful experiences and nice friendships the world over… it is sad to see it fade away, and it is also a challenge to cerate the same in another platform, to start anew… but as the travel bug within dictates, there seems to be no other option! take care and thanks for sharing what is on the minds and hearts of many of us 🙂
Anecdotal evidence that my own anecdotes would completely shatter. I was let down in the early days by hosts and had people not turn up, that also happened half-way through my tenure and lately? Never had someone flake on me. Your experience seems solely of American meetings and boards, so what? Iran is extremely hospitable and that’s reflected in the CS community – lots of people turn up for debates, there’s never any weirdness towards women, and so what if people feel more comfortable hosting girls – women feel like less of a threat to most people, hence why some girls only host girls.
I can’t take away from Casey that he wanted to sell, it’s his to sell and do with what he wants. Regardless of what you want, that’s his right – he’s worked at it for a long time, he deserves to make his money.
Anecdotal evidence that my own anecdotes would completely shatter. I was let down in the early days by hosts and had people not turn up, that also happened half-way through my tenure and lately? Never had someone flake on me. Your experience seems solely of American meetings and boards, so what? Iran is extremely hospitable and that’s reflected in the CS community – lots of people turn up for debates, there’s never any weirdness towards women, and so what if people feel more comfortable hosting girls – women feel like less of a threat to most people, hence why some girls only host girls.
I can’t take away from Casey that he wanted to sell, it’s his to sell and do with what he wants. Regardless of what you want, that’s his right – he’s worked at it for a long time, he deserves to make his money.
Hello everybody!!!!
Here you will find the truth about Couch Surfing and their disgusting behaviour with blind people.
Below you’ll find an article of my blind friend who had a lot of
troubles with Couch Surfing and finally his profile was deleted by Couch
Surfing.
Hello,
My name is Idji and I am blind. I am half French, half English in my education but I have a French passport.
I
am so sorry to be blind. On Couchsurfing it is even dirty and
forbidden! Yes, I tried to open a profile on Couchsurfing and I have
been deleted two times because I AM BLIND.
The
first time I have been deleted because I was asking my friend to write
for me. I was dictating my text but she was writing and I specified in
my profile that I was doing so. Then Couchsurfing deleted my profile,
explaining that my girlfriend having already a profile it was a fake
profile from my girlfriend because one is not allowed to write for
somebody else!
So
the armless people, paralysed people, blind people you can forget
Couchsurfing. Like in Germany in the past, the handicapped people are
not welcome.
As
I don’t give up quickly I wrote a second profile… well… more exactly
the same one, where I was specifying that I used “Jaws”, a system that
allows blind people to write on the internet. This time I wasn’t going
through somebody else to write my profile but as unfortunately I’m still
blind it stayed dirty and I was deleted again so that Couchsurfing
stays clean of handicapped people.
And
that is not all. There is a guy called Sam from Rome who behaved in an
obsessed way with my girlfriend because he wants only sex . He went with
my girlfriend on bike to visit Rome. They were supposed to go away for
two hours. Of course I stayed in the house. How could I join? And it
makes me happy to leave my friend visiting Rome in a different way.
After two hours I started to worry and my friend was asking to go home
to respect the time of two hours.
And
Sam said, yes, yes, we are on our way. But my friend was lost in the
middle of Rome and Sam went on lying to my friend, wasting time. Finally
after a lot of arguments, my friend came back to the house more than
five hours later.
During
this time, of course, I worried more and more. In the house where I
was, i.e. in the house of Sam, leave also two old women (his aunt and
grandma, I think). As Sam has a mobile I said “Could you call your
grandson to know if everything is fine?” and she answered “I call no
one, you go back to your room and you say without moving”.
As
a blind person I was absolutely kidnapped. After more than four hours I
could find the door out, which is not easy for a blind person, and I
could escape the house. I was in the corridor, knocking on every door
and asking to call the police. Some neighbours tried but it was always
engaged. You know, that is Rome. After a long time in the corridor my
friend arrived from her five hour tour and guided me back to Sam’s
house.
There
my girlfriend and I we had a big argument against Sam to whom we said
“Ok, we call the police”. He was there, afraid and very apologetic, and
he said “Please stay home, I’m so sorry. I will do everything to be
apologetic”. The next morning ,very early, we left.
And
when we try to leave a bad reference to Sam, each time I am deleted
because in spite of the darkness of this man, I have something even more
disgusting; I am blind!
This
Sam is on the two websites: Couchsurfing and BeWelcome. On BeWelcome we
left a clear negative reference and everybody can know who this man is.
But on Couchsurfing this man is highly protected.
In
spite of his protection he has quite a lot of bad references where a
lot of girls are specifying that this man is obsessed about sex. So the
girls can stay, but me as a blind person, despite this horrible story I
am not allowed to write anything because I am worse than Sam, I AM
BLIND!
Here is what the leaders of Couchsurfing wrote to me:
“
Idji’s profile was deleted because it directly breached our Terms of
Use. Let me explain this in greater detail. Profiles in our system can
only be created and used by the person they represent (in this case that
would have to be Idji). I don’t say that Idji is not a real person, on
the contrary! But members are not allowed to create or use a profile on
behalf of somebody else. Since you were the one who created that profile
for Idji, our Terms of Use were directly broken (even if you didn’t
mean to)”
Isn’t it disgusting? It reminds me the SS during the war.
In
France, which is a democratical country, the blind people are
respected. There is a national association for the protection of blind
people and when I am going to be in France I will go to this association
to sue Couchsurfing for discrimination against handicapped people.
On
Couchsurfing and BeWelcome, when I travel I always try to be friend,
but even more to help a lot. In Romania there is a guy, Costel, that I
helped quite a lot and he did a film about me, spontaneously. I leave
here the reference of this film on YouTube so that everybody can see how
I behave when I travel on Couchsurfing or BeWelcome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMVdEGI8MMg
Well…
today it will be only BeWelcome. So that you can see through this
little film that in spite of being blind I am not a stinking piece of
shit that deserves only a couch in a concentration camp. I think that
this story is absolutely incredible in darkness but it is really the
truth.
About
Sam and my blindness we kept every dialogue we had with Couchsurfing
that will be of course part of the file to sue them. I am ready to send
it to anyone who wants the file that we have about this story.
I
am happy today to be on BeWelcome where it seems that the handicapped
are welcome. Thank you to BeWelcome to exist because in spite of being
blind I feel like going on to exist, to have friends, and to help other
people.
Thank you for your reading.
Here is the link to my profile:
http://www.bewelcome.org/members/IdjiUsmu
Here are the links to Sems profiles on couchsurfing and on bewelcome:
http://www.couchsurfing.org/people/s5m/ (in the meanwhile his profile is as well deleted)
http://www.bewelcome.org/members/S5MROMA
I’m midway through reading and in agreement so far, but want to point out a language (or math) quibble. Instead of “a 360 degree shift”, don’t you mean a 180 degree one, meaning a reversal or an about-face?
I’ve just started hosting again after 18 months of inactivity and I’ve noticed… I’m ONLY getting requests from new members with 0 friend connections or verifications. Did the old users with history just totally flee? Or have they figured out that I’m the bleeding heart that accepts the poor bastards with no friends and crap English whom no one else wants to host?
I’m trying to start hosting again after a similar amount of time away.
The search is broken, I’m not appearing on the search even though there’re lots of people who aren’t hosting appearing there.
There is no way to filter people to only those whom are hosting.
I’m trying to start hosting again after a similar amount of time away.
The search is broken, I’m not appearing on the search even though there’re lots of people who aren’t hosting appearing there.
There is no way to filter people to only those whom are hosting.
I’m trying to start hosting again after a similar amount of time away.
The search is broken, I’m not appearing on the search even though there’re lots of people who aren’t hosting appearing there.
There is no way to filter people to only those whom are hosting.
here is a little guide i wrote together for the couchsurfing community to finance their trips =)
http://mikula.beutl.com/couchsurfers-guide-to-money/
if you have questions just contact me on skype, email or social media
enjoy!
Couchsurfing is still great but there is 10% men being a problem on the site. In Dubai for example, if a woman is raped, she would be jailed for this. It is like in Pakistan where 80% of the women jailed are jailed because having being raped. The same law applies. Every time I try nicely to inform women about this, as I surfed not knowing, and took stupid risks, the men on the site, mostly from Pakistan, always delete my comments. And the thing is the safety team seems to always be on their side, saying no women rights activism. In fact it was so obvious the last letter I received from the safety team from a certain Caytee, that I started to have doubt about this Caytee being a woman and being based in United States. As we all know a lot of companies locate their on line services in India. And in India, a lot of workers are from Pakistan as well. So I thought but would it be possible Caytee would be a Pakistanese man, based in India? And if yes, so is it legal from Couchsurfing to pretend to have a safety team run by women in United States when it is in fact men based in India? Which would explain the lack of banner and information in Dubai and the will to not inform women about their rights.
Couchsurfing is still great but there is 10% men being a problem on the site. In Dubai for example, if a woman is raped, she would be jailed for this. It is like in Pakistan where 80% of the women jailed are jailed because having being raped. The same law applies. Every time I try nicely to inform women about this, as I surfed not knowing, and took stupid risks, the men on the site, mostly from Pakistan, always delete my comments. And the thing is the safety team seems to always be on their side, saying no women rights activism. In fact it was so obvious the last letter I received from the safety team from a certain Caytee, that I started to have doubt about this Caytee being a woman and being based in United States. As we all know a lot of companies locate their on line services in India. And in India, a lot of workers are from Pakistan as well. So I thought but would it be possible Caytee would be a Pakistanese man, based in India? And if yes, so is it legal from Couchsurfing to pretend to have a safety team run by women in United States when it is in fact men based in India? Which would explain the lack of banner and information in Dubai and the will to not inform women about their rights.
Couchsurfing is still great but there is 10% men being a problem on the site. In Dubai for example, if a woman is raped, she would be jailed for this. It is like in Pakistan where 80% of the women jailed are jailed because having being raped. The same law applies. Every time I try nicely to inform women about this, as I surfed not knowing, and took stupid risks, the men on the site, mostly from Pakistan, always delete my comments. And the thing is the safety team seems to always be on their side, saying no women rights activism. In fact it was so obvious the last letter I received from the safety team from a certain Caytee, that I started to have doubt about this Caytee being a woman and being based in United States. As we all know a lot of companies locate their on line services in India. And in India, a lot of workers are from Pakistan as well. So I thought but would it be possible Caytee would be a Pakistanese man, based in India? And if yes, so is it legal from Couchsurfing to pretend to have a safety team run by women in United States when it is in fact men based in India? Which would explain the lack of banner and information in Dubai and the will to not inform women about their rights.
Totally agree with you Nithin. This guy http://thestupidforeigner.com/ makes the same point exactly.Us the veteran couchsurfers remember how it was,how easy to get a safe and wonderful host,how easy the website interface was to use.Now it is just glossy glossy pix and effects and the forum for my place is irritating to navigate,few people post there.. IT’s sad that commercialism has struck and the soul of CS has been tainted…. let’s hope there are enough like-minded people out there to manage to tip the balance back somehow.
Helpful point of view abou couchsurfing… I’m still there but also I tried new things like cocksurfing lol I know sounds rude but actually it is a community, like couchsurfing use tu be. Just this one is gay.
Hi Nithin!
Thanks for your post – It’s great to hear your take on Couchsurfing and be more aware of the bug going around that is insincerity and just plain ungratefulness.
My take on Couchsurfing is that while there are plenty of people who abuse the site for their own superficial agenda, there are also plenty of people who are still great ambassadors. They are sincere, genuine and really want to show you their culture, and be a part of a great community. I don’t think these people are on the decline. If we read their profiles carefully, sincerity shines through their words. Fake sincerity is easy to see and thus should be pointed out and encouraged.
As individuals, it is easy to dismiss couchsurfing by anecdotal experience, but there lies great power in the individual to change the way people perceive of couchsurfing too. Gently, one person at a time. 🙂
Still, thank you so much for reading! I really enjoyed your post 🙂
Cheerios
Evan
I have noticed the same thing. I first hosted in 2010. Since the “invite” button was added couch surfing changed. I used to host about 5 times over the summer due to my proximity to Niagara Falls (Buffalo.) This year none. I mainly leave my profile up because of past surfers and the possibility of one of their friends wanting to stay on a reference. I won’t ask (invite) someone to stay because it is my view if you are looking for a place to stay you should make the request, it is the least you can do. And there in lies the “new couchsurfing
I have noticed the same thing. I first hosted in 2010. Since the
“invite” button was added couch surfing changed. I used to host about 5
times over the summer due to my proximity to Niagara Falls (Buffalo.)
This year none. I mainly leave my profile up because of past surfers
and the possibility of one of their friends wanting to stay on a
reference. I won’t ask (invite) someone to stay because it is my view
if you are looking for a place to stay you should make the request, it
is the least you can do. And there in lies the “new couchsurfing” the author speaks of.
Seeing a pretty woman getting several invites says it all. I have set
parameters if I ever host another surfer. You need to have been a
member for some time, not just become a member because you need a place
to stay on a trip and joined for accommodations. Chances if you are not
from a foreign country I am not going to host you. There are a few
others but you get the idea. So yes, I also believe a good thing is on
its downfall. Couchsurfing has gone from great cultural exchanges to hosting true freeloaders to now it seems just another social meeting site.
I agree. Same here. I hosted 100 couchsurfers in one year, long time ago. Now I barely get requests and when I get them they are from people in need of a free place to stay. Some even tell me that they bring everything and that I don’t even need to be there for them. WTF? Couchsurfing used to be for people meeting each other and for exchanging experiences. Now it’s just a bunch of horny guys trying to get laid, and a bunch of others searching for a free place to stay.
After years of hosting and some surfing ..I cant recallhow many people Ive hosted but its hundreds, Im inclined to agree with this Ive met some awesome people but now I see to get a lot more free loaders and Ive got tired of feeling used and Im thinking of quitting
I left the CS community 3 years ago when I was raped by my host. He had over 30 positive refrences from single female travellers. After I posted a negative review he retaliated and publicly wrote in detail what he had done to me that night, except he said that I wanted it. I believe I was drugged, as one of two memory I have of that night was fighting him off and saying no.
The CS team refused to take down his comments because they “didn’t breach their terms and conditions”. I have never been so humiliated in my life. They don’t support their members at all. I had been with them before for 4 years surfing and hosting but when it came down to it, they don’t care about you as a person.
Aquaphoenix could you
please contact
providenceprod@yahoo.fr
for a documentary and a collective case.
There is no safety team because they gave the
support team to Concentrix, and this Concentrix might
be based in India or anywhere.
This is one women are not protected on CS because for example
working in India it is often male Pakistanese engineers or Indian male engineers and the women’s rights are not the same in those countries.
We have the copy of a mail saying that the safety team being given to Concentrix had been a trial period.
You also have maybe to help us to open up this petition at the White house asking for the transparency of the support or safety team.
It is Ok to have a Yemenite man in charge of the safety team for women, but it has to be transparent, it cannot be signed up from a Caytee pretending to be in United States when in fact it is a guy based in a coutry where women’s rights are not the same at all, and the perception of the women’s surfing in a man’s place not the same.
For example in Dubai, women being raped are jailed, but it is impossible to inform on the CS wall, the flags are deleted and the CS embassadors nearly all men coming from countries where women’s rights are an issue. Plus those men work on CS a lot as engineer in computing and hacking could be very easy for them.
If you want to create a women’s hosting women group they will do everything to destroy it especially in countries where women’s rights are an issue, where you cannot report a rape. They will suspend the women creating those groups, deleting their account, sending them threatening mails all this with the help and benediction of the safety team acting as the one deleting the account for feminist activism, we got the mails.
All this will end up in a collective case. As a woman you are in right to ask for at least one million dollar, CS is based in United States and the lawyers are paid on the percent of what they owe. And CS is rich enough to pay for this. It might make them fall in bankrupcy but at least it will be a lesson for the next website of this type.
Now why you did not go to the police to complain about this man? Did you go?
To put drugs in women’s drink is quite common sometimes, sto force women, to make them drink.
It is a sad reality, the safety team should be run by women social workers, psychologists, lawyers based in United States and active in women’s rights but it is the contrary right now.
aquaphoenix Did you take this matter to the police? An incident as serious as this goes way, way beyond the petty squabbling of Couchsurfing and should be addressed in a criminal court.
aquaphoenix They’re not going to take off a comment cause people have the right to defend themselves. But you should be able to reply too.
You can contact the other people he’s hosted and ask if they’ve spotted something strange. These things go unreported a lot of the time.
couchsurfingmemories AnnFooaquaphoenix nnnnnnn
Yes I went to the police. They
laughed in my face and told me that nothing could be done because I had
voluntarily stayed at his house, and also the judges are all male and
would take his side. (Their own words) There was no such thing as decency or justice in this country. I fail to see how 30 other female
travelers have not reported it…I believe some did they were just all
silenced. if they have already deleted a persons profile because of misconduct why they couldnt delete the comment. I had already proven that he had committed a criminal act…they just refused to remove the comment for their own power and control. the comment did nothing to serve the community because he had been removed!
couchsurfingmemories for some reason I cannot log into my original account. and what is this documentary?
The police you spoke to were lying to you. It doesn’t matter if you voluntarily stayed with him, rape is rape. Police will say anyhing to dissuade you not to report this, because they are lazy and they don’t want to do the work. If you want to report this, you need to go to police station and insist that you want to make a complaint of rape. Insist that it is your right to do this, and they, by law, have to follow through. I don’t know what country you’re in, but if you still have difficulties, look for some women’s support networks or legal aid who can help you. Don’t expect anything from Cs community – they are useless in the most simple problems, let alone a big problem like this, which is really a legal issue and hence needs to be addressed by law, not by a silly Internet travellers network
AnnFoo how stupid do you think I am? You have no idea what I went through – I was hours and hours with different police, embassies and womens rights communities in the area. There is the way the justice system should work – and the way it does work. Bottom line is they dont give a shit because nothing can be proven in the end. It was my word against his. There is no such thing as law. There is no such thing as justice. He was a tour guide and after reporting all this to the police, embassy and the tourist information community…guess what. HE IS STILL A TOUR GUIDE. You have no idea what you are talking about or how it actually works in the real world.
aquaphoenix2 You are right. Unfortunately I have a friend who was raped by a couchsurfer in South East Asia, and the authorities did nothing about it. He drugged her beer and then well the rest you can guess it.
Unfortunately couchsurfing became this. It’s a place for easy dates or for rapists like those already mentioned here before. I believe that with the growth of couchsurfing, something should have been done to improve safety of those who are hosted and those who want to host. And spare me from bullshit such as that women should know better, and that it’s their responsibility, etc, because it’s not. It can happen to any of us and there’s almost nothing we can do to avoid this. And I’m a man supporting women in this subject.
aquaphoenix2 AnnFoo I understand you are angry about what happened but please don’t take it out on me. You never said you took action, and many people aren’t aware of the services available, so I was suggesting those things because I was trying to help. I know exactly what I’m talking about and how things work in the real world – I’ve been through something similar, locked in a cabin by a crew member on a ferry in between Greece and Italy and I also reported to the police, authorities, etc etc to no avail, Greece claimed this was Italy’s problem, Italy claimed it was Greece’s problem, everyone said it was my own fault for trusting a crew member on the ferry when he told me I had to go with him, and this was also apparently my own fault for travelling alone (the company was called Superfast Ferries) so I know what you mean when you say the system doesn’t work. However, even if the system did not work for you or I, I hope that it works for some people and that is why I try to make people aware of services they might not know about.
undertowphoto
I wouldn’t take it too literally about CS being no good : I did 15 CS a year for five years and have now retired to 2 /3 hostings , but have never had any problem : 90 guests , 10 hosts . No problems . Verification and vouching processes are still effective as far as I can see : it’s not all doom and gloom
After reading all of this, and as a CS member myself, I’m quite disheartened to hear how CS has changed for the worse. I’m also surprised that no one has mentioned SERVAS. SERVAS is probably one of the first travel & hosting organizations. It was started in 1946 with the basic philosophy of developing world peace through travel. It’s focus is not about cheap travel, rather it’s about creating friendships around the world so we better understand one another. I would encourage any like-minded people to look into SERVAS as another alternative to their traveling experience.
I agree. I host in the summers. I’ve helped people who are here on working holiday visas. They have stayed up to two weeks, one guy I let stay while I went away for the weekend. They set up house here in Vancouver – and then I never heard from them again. I agree something changed, and not for the better.
sennichi Would love your thoughts on the project I’ve been working on (horizonapp.co).
I’ve had a couchsurfing profile for many years, but never lived in my own apartment and wasn’t traveling enough to use it in my teenage years. In fact, I only started using it this summer in my second year of traveling. I have absolutely noticed many negative reviews, and gotten messages from creepy dudes (which I ignore) asking to hang out. I’ve had mostly good experiences (with the exception of a few picky females who got upset over tiny little things), but I too am picky with choosing who I stay with. I stay away from the “cool” people with hundreds and hundreds of references, because it feels more like a frat house to me. Hopefully there can continue to be a community of genuine people, whether it is small or not through this website (or maybe even another one!).
There are many options today for traveling the world on a budget. It all depends on what you’re looking for and what kind of person you are. My wife and I joined SERVAS several years ago. SERVAS was the original travel and hosting organization starting just after WWII as a way to build world peace by learning more about other cultures through personal experiences. There are SERVAS chapters in over 100 countries so you join locally by making a personal interview with another member. If you are liberal-minded, open to meeting people from all cultures and possibly making life-long friends and maybe even a difference in the world, it might be right for you. Plus, they are always looking for young people to get involved.
mikulabeutl Your link doesn’t work
Wow, so sad after reading all this.
I discovered recently CS and had planned to use it, but now I don’t know what to do
I just wanted to write here and say I was a faithful CS host for a year in one of the most popular locations on the planet. We had to SCREEN our people to come stay with us to make sure they were not coming just to save on a hotel and really wanted the “local” experience. Those we did host al turned out well and I made some lifelong friends. Time went on and our world changed and the house was gone and me and my roommate grew apart (though we are still friends to this day). He wanted to only host cute girls and I wanted to take in anyone and everyone because that was the spirit of the site.
I have been promised by over 50 people that I could “visit them someday” in their countries, and when i reached out to all but a few they either no longer existed on CS or were unresponsive.
I travel for a living now and am about to use CS in a country I am completely unfamiliar with. I know CS went “for profit” last year and since then it has been run amuck with sloppy ads and the “sex couching” phase.
Sadly I doubt they will come back from this, there is to much greed involved in this world. I loved my CS days. I stayed on a few couches before becoming a host. Maybe its different in Latin America (I sure hope so). A profile shouldn’t get more hits cause a woman is pretty, those who are using CS for the wrong reasons need to get a life.
Just my two cents
San francisco is the coolest city in the world. Further from there, not so cool.
CS changed its interface a few years ago and is much harder to use.
Apparently only horny guys are motivated to deal with the rickety interface.
Unintended consequences of html5 and that dreadful “dynamic interface”, I guess.
Hi there,
Great article and I couldn’t agree more. I started couchsurfing in 2007 and have watched its slow demise over the last 10 years. While I still am a very active member, it’s definitely become a challenge in more ways than one. My biggest gripe is with surfers who request couches from me, often neglecting to even glance at my profile. I wrote about it on my post: http://freshcoffeestains.com/couchsurfing/ and think our ideas are quite similar. I still really do believe that Couchsurfing is an amazing program and still think the community is there… just really have to hunt for it!
Thanks Tam – and read your piece too. I agree – there are good people left on CS, but with every re-design and shift, it becomes harder and harder to find them.
BTW, I recently noticed that CS is no longer a B-Corp (which was the big spin when they went for-profit) – and they never made any mention of switching to a regular old, fully for-profit company. How lame…
Although this article is a few years old now, I have to say you saw it coming sooner than I did.
I didn’t mind the changes so much initially because i felt they weren’t too bad and pretty much ignored everyone who said this is a change for the worse. Now, including the problems you’ve mentioned the message boards are not so user-friendly. They seem to point towards generating more posts rather than as a means to access reliable information, people you can message and say “hi, saw your post. would be great to see you” and then find people actually replying. Now what you get is mostly an empty inbox (as a man).
Anyway, the point of the rant was, if you have any alternatives i would be glad to know of them!
Actually couchsurfing now is full of freeloaders that try to get hotel, restaurant and transport for free. Only some of them consider beeing a pleasure for the host in any kind of way, the rest are just parasites, who don’t bring down the rubbish they leave and dont even clean up the dirt they leave.
I hosted more than 80 couchsurfers during 2015 and about 30% turned out to be prasites, specially young people with rich parents!